TRYING TO GET STARTED

[DuncaninFrance]

Thanks Joe.
The plan is as follows

1) Separate out the remaining cartridges and re-cycle the bits.
2) Cast some new bullets but don't re-size them.
3) Separate one of the 4 remaining cartridges I got from the previous owner and check his load.
4) Load some of Adams bullets.
5) Load some of the new cast.
6) Get back to the range next week and try again.

Even though today was a negative one I did enjoy shooting something that I made and I am not at all downhearted.

Available powder here is either Tubal or VV and I have 500 grams of the Tubal 2000 to use up. ................Onward and Upward

[dhtaxi]

Duncan dont get dis heartened we have all been there it will come right. I have no knowledge of Tubal powders so I cannot comment. Is that the only powder available to you.

[NuJudge]

Stop and think before you do anything.

Fillers always scare me, because they can cause rings in your chamber at the base of the bullet. The explanation is that they act like a secondary projectile. If you use them, use very little. I'd much prefer you just elevate the muzzle prior to firing.

Your bullets seem to not be stabilizing and not grouping.

Gas Checks act as a structural reinforcement of the base of the bullet. If your loads are anything more than very mild, your results without a gas check will be worse.

If your bullets are too small, you will probably have lots of Leading in your bore from gasses blasting past the bullet, cutting Lead off and depositing it in the bore. Is that the case?

When I was young & poor, I used to shoot slightly undersized Gas Check bullets in a .303, but I sized them in a lubricator/sizer die that was over the barrel's groove diameter, and at least in that rifle I got away with it. What was the diameter of the gas check on your lubed/sized bullet? If it is at least groove diameter, maybe your problem is elsewhere.

I've been looking at burn rate charts:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~stargate/powder/powder.htm
Your Tubal 2000 is right next to AA5744. Faster than 4227. Slower than 4198. The C.E. Harris article has a discussion on loads with this weight of bullet in this class of cartridge, with this powder speed (something around 17 or 18 grains):
http://www.baldwin-telecom.net/~vernand ... Rifles.htm

Did you chamber a cartridge, then extract it to see if the tops of the lands were touching the bullet nose? This kind of support of the bullet on firing can be helpful to keep the bullet from bending on firing. As with match .22 rifles, I like to thrust my cast rifle bullets into the rifling slightly.

[DuncaninFrance]

Duncan dont get dis heartened we have all been there it will come right. I have no knowledge of Tubal powders so I cannot comment. Is that the only powder available to you.

The only other powder is Vihtavuori and the equivalent to Vectan Tubal 2000 is N120 which I intend to buy once I have used the Tubal up.

Nobel, who make Vectan give the following as relative powders.

ACCURATE...............XMR 2015
ALLIANT..................Reloader 7
HODGDON.................H4198
IMR..........................IMR4198
NORMA....................N200
ROTTWEIL................NONE.

[DuncaninFrance]

Thanks for your info NuJudge, am going to do some reading now!!

[dhtaxi]

Duncan I have been re reading this post.
First off if you still have the cartridges you were given with the rifle keep two of them but fire the rest through the gun check the result do they group etc.
If they perform ok dismantle the two you kept check bullet weight and diameter weigh the powder charge check if they are gas checked.
Then report back your findings. If the ones you fired perform badly you should still dismantle the two you have kept and report your findings.

A.309 Lee enfield seems awfully tight to me.I use a.312 in my 303s but of course that dosnt meen that a .312 would aoutomatically be right for yours.
You said the bullets dropped from the mould at .311 then you put them through a .309 sizer I think that was a mistake I would of lubed them and fired at least 5 rounds through the rifle at .311.
I have never used a filler in any cast load I have loaded but I do not know enough about the subject to make a judgement as to wether that was the right or wrong thing to do may be Adam or one of the other guys with more experience than me may be able to offer a opinion.
I think we need the get the bullit fit right then I think we can work on powder charges etc.

Oh and one last thing you dont need to cast loads of bullits when you are trying a new bullit mould etc. I would cast a maximum of 50. Thirty is enough if they work you can all ways cast some more if you knock out hundreds then find they dont work you have to melt them all down again before you can start again.

[DuncaninFrance]

Cheers Dave.

I pulled all the stuff I made and returned the powder to the drum! Bullets will be melted down tomorrow and I will cast some more, as you suggest, about 50.
I pulled one of the cases the guy I bought the rifle from gave me and the charge is 20.8 grains of Tubal 2000. Bullet is gas checked and is 145.8 grains with an OD of .312". It looks as though it is a LEE 90366. 309-150-F. There is a Dacron filler in there too. That leaves me 3 rounds from him to shoot.

I had some bullets left from the first cast that I did not size and just placing them point down in the muzzle they only went into the barrel down to the first lube ring. The re-sized ones went in all the way so perhaps un-sized from this mould might be OK.

I will load a selection and try them out next week ( wife permitting!!) It's fascinating stuff this, I am really enjoying myself now

[dhtaxi]

Ah .312 now that makes more sense.
30 Duncan 30 is enough. Cast them then post the bullet weight and the size of the bullet.
Dont go any further than that lets get this right.

Duncan keep a eye on skype if I am on line and you have any questions bell me and we can talk and that goes for any body else on milsurp after hours feel free to skype me if I am on line its good to talk.

[DuncaninFrance]

Ah .312 now that makes more sense.
30 Duncan 30 is enough. Cast them then post the bullet weight and the size of the bullet.
Dont go any further than that lets get this right.

Duncan keep a eye on skype if I am on line and you have any questions bell me and we can talk and that goes for any body else on milsurp after hours feel free to skype me if I am on line its good to talk.

Roger that!

[DuncaninFrance]

PLAN Q³

My pal Alain came round this afternoon and I was about to re cast the .309"s when we got to thinking.................don't do a lot of that on account of my brain cell getting tired

Anyway, Alain suggested that we check the case/bullet with a view to loading the bullet so that it ALMOST touches the start of the rifling so I got out my version ( Can't remember the name of the original bit of kit ) of the gauge that pushes a bullet out of the case neck using a rod that passes through the primer hole in the base of a specially threaded case. Needless to say the bullet was not long enough and the base was about 2mm outside the top of the neck

We then repeated the process using one of Adams Lyman casts and found that the tip of the bullet touched the start of the rifling leaving the neck filled with the base. LOA 1.0898"
I then found some samples (the guy had mixed 2 sizes in the same bag!) that I had been given when I bought the rifle and these had an OAL of 1.0354" and appear to be from a LEE .303B mould #90371.

So, on Sunday we will be loading some of Adams Lyman and some of the LEE and testing on Wednesday afternoon. Load will be 1.35 grams / 21 grains of Tubal 2000.

Although not wishing to pre-empt the outcome it seems as though I will be looking for a new LEE .303B mould!