Refinishing the stock of a SbS shotgun

cotefenetre · Post by **cotefenetre** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:51 pm

I want to refinish the stock of an old S&S shotgun also having to recut the checkering pattern.

I assume the checkering pattern was originally made at 60º (advice?) so I will buy something like the DEM-Bart S-1 checkering cutter 60º.

So my first question is, is this the right tool? Something cheaper? Do I need a DEM-Bart Jointer checkering tool? There's a reasonable amount og original checkering there.

After recutting the checkering pattern on, both, stock and forearm I'll have to remove the previous finish (varnish) and at the same time protecting the freshly cut checkering.

I figure regular household ammonia will be adequate to remove the varnish, using it with 000 steel wool.

Afterwards, the stock grain will have raised so I'll need to spend some elbow grease sanding it with some sanding paper. Thus, another question is, what kind of sanding paper and how much sanding is needed to be done?

Eventually, as a woodfiller I'll use some boiled linessed oil (is there something better for a good looking S&S shotgun?) and as a finish I'll use some household furniture wax. So my last question is whether, both, lineseed and wax are the right choices, how to apply them, and whether I must go shopping for something in particular.

I hope this question wasn't asked before, but I don't (yet) know how to properly use the search feature of the forum.

cotefenetre · Post by **cotefenetre** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:12 pm

P.S.

Would it be any better to use epoxy or polyurethane as a woodfiller? Why?

Please, note that I do not have any previous experience with them.

Tom-May · Post by **Tom-May** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:28 am

First question:

Why are you intending to (re)cut the chequering BEFORE removing any finish?

Would it not be better to remove the finish first, that way you will be able to see clearly the amount of work required (and you won't waste time cutting through the finish).

Second question:

What is the finish? You say "Varnish" but is this a shellac (French Polish) type, a Copal or a polyurathane type varnish? There is a test based on scraping the finish with a sharp blade and observing the reaction of the material removed.

Each finish requires a different type of removal.

French polish will be easily removed with Methylated Spirits (de-natured alcohol) and a bit of elbow grease.

Copal varnishes may require a stronger solvent (acetone?) although it may be worth trying a non-polar solvent such as white spirit/spirits of turpentine.

Polyurathane may be partially removed with acetone but will possibly requiure something more radical.

By the way, 0000 grade steel wool would be better.

Question Three:

What do you mean by "woodfiller"? Do you mean grain filler (to allow a "full-grain" polished finish) or a "stopper" (to fill small holes)?

If grain-fillers, try contacting either a 'finishing supplies' company or try to get some from a local French polisher, it's a paste which is rubbed on in a circular motion, left for a couple of minutes and the rubbed off across the grain (to leave the material in the grain).

The filler is a wax/raw linseed oil mix and may be lifted by excessive rubbing with linseed oil

If you require a stopper, for very small holes, try a 'hot wax' stopper - a wax stick melted into the hole (either by dropping the molten wax into the hole or transferring with a hot iron*). The excess can be removed by scraping with a blunt blade or cabinet scraper and has the advantage that it can have grain patterns painted on with analine dyes, to camouflage any stopping. These wax sticks can be found in many stores selling antique or reproduction furniture.

Fourth Question:

",,,another question is, what kind of sanding paper and how much sanding is needed to be done? ..."

I would suggest that perhaps sandpaper is the wrong material - try getting your hands on either very finely divided pumice stone or "rottenstone" (pumice is preferable as it is softer) applied sparingly on a cloth or soft leather (chamois?) with BLO.

As for how much, as little as possible until the surface is to the required degree of smooothness. Remember that, if applying a multilayer finish, the surface will be smoothed between coats.

As for a finish - as the piece was originally varnished, may I suggest that a coat of shellac 'sanding sealer' (a 50/50 mix of shellac polish and alcohol) after filling/stopping and a coat or two of French polish before use of a clear bees-wax (applied gently with 0000 wire wool and polished with a soft cloth).

If you wish to use BLO, do not use sealer (obviously), apply the first layer or two of oil geently and leave to dry thoriughly before applying each layer (remember, hard rubbing will lift any grain filler which is intended for use with French polish).Leave the oil enough time to dry and then the same again before even considering adding wax to the wood then use only a soft wax polish on a soft cloth - do not expect a deep polish - you won't get it.

Whichever finish you choose (short of slapping on polyurathane varnish)

AVOID AEROSOL FURNITURE POLISH LIKE THE PLAGUE ! it contains solvets which will damage 'natural' finish materials.

Any use?

Tom

* A spoon, heated in a candle and the soot removed with a clean cloth works.

cotefenetre · Post by **cotefenetre** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:14 am

Hi Tom, your answer is awesome!

I'll recut the chekckering after removing the finish first. But are the tools I suggested the ones to look for? I want to buy all the materials before starting this project.

There is a test based on scraping the finish with a sharp blade and observing the reaction of the material removed.

What this test is?

I was simply suggesting 000 wool steel because I already used it satisfactorily when removing some rusted spots in the steel parts. But I'm willing to give a try to the 0000 one.

By woodfiller I meant "grain filler" (I assume I need it). I cannot say for sure, but I figure I won't have small holes to be filled up. It looks quite smooth at first glance.

I'll look for pumice too. Regarding the cloth, whatever cloth is going to be fine? Like cotton cloth.

Is shellac a brand name of sanding sealer?

After sanding with pumice, if shellac + French polish + bees-wax is going to leave a smother, catchy, finish than BLO then I'll go for it.

Again, thank you Tom!

Tom-May · Post by **Tom-May** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:12 pm

"...I'll recut the chekckering after removing the finish first. But are the tools I suggested the ones to look for? I want to buy all the materials before starting this project..."

To be honest, I've no idea, my experience is in treating furniture (part of my degree course contained a side course on French Polishing and traditional finishing).

"...There is a test based on scraping the finish with a sharp blade and observing the reaction of the material removed..."

What this test is?

In essence one takes a cabinet scraper or a very sharp knife blade (a single edged razor blade works), find an out of the way spot and set the blade perpendicular to the surface then firmly, but not heavily scrape the finish.
If the finish comes off in continuous curls then it is shellac, if it crumbles into a dust, it's polyurathane, short curls may be shellac or copal (try wiping with meths, if the surface seeps slightly sticky or the finish seems to lift, it's shellac.

"...By woodfiller I meant "grain filler" (I assume I need it)..."

It depends on the wood, beech, oak and timbers with large vessels need filling, but many gun stock woods won't need it (still, it's useful if you have some.

"...I'll look for pumice too. Regarding the cloth, whatever cloth is going to be fine? Like cotton cloth..."

Any lint free cloth, wadded up, should do. As for pumice, try your local finisher/French Polisher, he/she should be able to advise you, possibly even to supply tou with small quantities (you won't need much, far less than the minimum quantity available).

"...Is shellac a brand name of sanding sealer?..."

No, shellac is the purified secretions of a oriental beetle (can't remember the latin name off hand) which is dissolved in methylated spirits (de-natured alcohol), and is sometimes sold to the public a liquid French polish. The purer the polish, the paler it is, and, of course, the more expensive.

For darker woods one can get away with 'button polish'*, the darkest of the normally available polishes.

Traditional sanding sealer tends to be standard shellac (French) polish diluted to about 50% concentration (or slightly less) with meths/dna - this can be applied with with a pad, or, for this work, a soft camel hair mop brush (don't apply too much, just enough to seal the piece before sanding - you can always add if necessary)).

Hope this helps.

Tom

* My old lecturer would rip me a new one for suggesting such a thing, he advocated the use of extra-pale everywhere, but then he was a purist (pale allows forbetter colour matching etc.).

cotefenetre · Post by **cotefenetre** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:20 pm

Now I have bare stripped the wood (stock and forearm) and I applied a paint remover before cleaning it with solvent.

Currently, the stock still has some dark spots that where caused by continued exposure to oil and sweat (I suppose), so I'd like to know whether they can be removed or softened.

As I'm not going to have the DEM-BARTcheckering tools anytime soon, I'll start by looking again for pumice (fine graded, between 3-0 and 6-0). I'll also buy some tape as to protect the checkering which ended up to be in fairly better condition than I expected before removing the former finish.

After sanding the stock and forearm with pumice I'll put a layer of grain filler on it. I've been told that translucid grain fillers have white pigments which are undesirable, so I must use a light color grain filler. Is that true?

Eventually, I've read that "grain filler+wood sealer+French polish+bees-wax" gives an "indoor" finish, so it will be inadecuate for a firearm that would see weather changes, sweat, and oils. Therefore I'm looking for something else to put on after the grain filler. I looked for a polyurethane coating but I've been advised that it darkens the wood, so I'm completely lost regarding what finish to chose. After whatever finish, can I apply bees-wax? With what effect?

Thank you in advance for your advice!

cotefenetre · Post by **cotefenetre** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:24 am

Now you're going to kill me... I've just visited the AyA shotguns website and they state to use an oil based finish. It looks terrific.

How can I do the same? Is it easy?

I assume it's not a matter of simply applying some kind of oil plus some sanding plus bees-wax. Is it?

cotefenetre · Post by **cotefenetre** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:29 am

Update

After rubbing 18 coats of shellac I realized that the finish wasn't curing at all. I waited for a few days and it didn't cure at all, so I proceeded to remove most of the shellac with alcohol (etanol ~60%).

Now I have the bare wood with some traces of shellac, like if it had a thinned coat of shellac, but it's having a hard time to dry out!

I bed this is not what it should do, could the preparation I bought be deffective in some way?

Tom-May · Post by **Tom-May** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:57 pm

I thought that you were going for an oil finish.

Typically, in finishing furniture (the only experience I have had, as I believe I mentioned), one would lay on two or three coats of finish with a 'mouse' or 'rubber' (a filled, smooth cloth pad), allowing each to dry to the touch before applying the next, then leaving it a couple of hours to dry thoroughly, before sanding back the surface to flatten out irregularities.

If applying the finish with a mop or brush, then more time should be left between individual coats as these will be thicker (remember the finish dries from the surface backward to the wood.

Either you've tried to apply too much finish too quickly or the finish had a integral 'slow drying lubricant' such as linseed (or a 'non-drying') oil - a possibility if the shellac was for a different purpose - or possibly a combination of both.

Regards

Tom