Pyrodex question

[Dutch Mosin]

I bought 4 lb of Pyrodex from a member of our gun club today.
This powder is new to me so I need some reloading data for my Beaumont and my Vetterli using this powder.
All info or links are more then welcome.
Thanks.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin

[dromia]

http://www.hodgdon.com/pyrodex.html

[Dutch Mosin]

I've been using WANO PP (German BP) for a couple of years now.



Last year a fellow gun club member sold me a couple of cans Pyrodex P.
He had no use for it anymore.
Last week I reloaded a couple Beaumont cases using Pyrodex P.
I usually use 45 grains of WANO, but 38 grains of Pyrodex filled up the case to the same level as 45 grains of WANO.
I used some cous-cous and a cardboard wad to fill up the case and put a 340 grains cal .457 boolit on top of it all.

I took the Beaumont to the 50 meter range today and results were fantastic.
All hits were "in the black" of the target.
Cleaning went faster afterwards and there was less smoke, which is a good thing on an indoor range.
All in all............FANTASTIC.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin

[DuncaninFrance]

What a happy Dutchman you are Martin

[joseyclosey]

Good work Martin, i like to hear a good cast boolit sucess story. When i used to shoot a Rogers and Spencer revolver (Euroarms) i always used Pyrodex myself by preference.

Joe

[Dutch Mosin]

What a happy Dutchman you are Martin

I sure am Duncan, but that is because I like this BP shooting so much.

Good work Martin, i like to hear a good cast boolit success story. When i used to shoot a Rogers and Spencer revolver (Euroarms) i always used Pyrodex myself by preference.

Joe

Every now and then everybody just needs a little success Joe.
This is more then enough for me to keep me going.


Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin

[belgmart]

Martin,

Beware at any rate - apparently the combustion residue from Pyrodex contains perchlorates, which will actively cause rust, making the stuff much more corrosive than real BP, the residue of which is merely hygroscopic. They claim the stuff won't give you sulfur-based corrosion, and they're right - but sulfur doesn't cause corrosion. This information came from Bill Knight, the BP 'guru', who also wrote the bible on most BP's.

[Dutch Mosin]

Thanks for the heads up belgmart.
I appreciate it.

A couple of days ago I sent an E-mail to Hodgdon.
I explained to them that 2 things were important for me to know.

First thing was that I don't fill the cases of my Dutch Beaumont and Swiss Vetterli entirely with powder.(Pyrodex P in my case)
I use cous-cous and a cardboard wad as a filler.
I wanted to know if this was safe.

Next question was about the fact whether Pyrodex P was BP or more like a smokeless powder.
Reason for me to ask this was because original BP weapons are free in theNetherlands(meaning they don't need a license), but only as long as you use BP in them.
Here's the answer I got from them:

Pyrodex is a modified black powder.
The main contents are: Charcoal, sulfur, nitrate.
Other ingredients are added to make is safer to transport, store and use.
Pyrodex is not a smokeless powder it contains no nitrocellulose and no nitroglycerin.

You should load Pyrodex just like black powder.
You should not have any airspace in the cartridge and the base of the bullet should compress the powder about 1/8 inch.
Fillers can be used to avoid the airspace but you still need to maintain the compression.
I do not recommend food products as filler.
Food products have very low moisture in them.
Pyrodex is designed to have some moisture in it.
If the ammunition sits for a while with a food product filler, the moisture could be drawn from the powder causing an increase in burn speed and pressure.
If food products are used for filler the ammunition should be fired within 7 days.
Wads make better filler in a straight walled case.
In a bottle necked case, you must use a full case of powder or you could use one of the granulated plastic products or use a food product but get the ammunition fired within 7 days.

You can use Pyrodex to load any cartridge you want.

I hope that this information is of assistance.

Mike Daly
Cutomer Service Manager
Hodgdon Family of Fine Propellants
Hodgdon Smokeless Powder
IMR Powder Company
Winchester Smokeless Propellants
GOEX Blackpowder

Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin

[Aughnanure]

Nice to get a straight and informative answer; doesn't always happen.

[Dutch Mosin]

Very true Eoin and I must say that I was very pleased with this answer.

But..........I also got answers like these.

I would suspect that the company that made the product to give that very answer. I am diabetic and take insulin along with other meds. I took the pill Avandia for several months. A doctor who had no ties to the company noticed he was losing several of his patients to heart attacks. His further research showed that other doctors were seeing the same thing. After some 500 people died they notified the FDA which saw fit to remove the drug. I told my doctor that I wanted to be on a different product. He showed me a paper stating that the drug was safe to use by everybody. I read at the bottom of the page that the paper was printed by the maker of the drug. If Pyrodex could cause harm do you think they would tell you. Off the box Fairshake

Martin, Mike Daly provided you with 'words' about Pyrodex, but he missed some key points ...
1. Pyrodex is not black powder, it is classified as a sodium benzoate substitute for black powder and is not "Pyrodex is a modified black powder". Black powder is a mechanical mix of potassium nitrate - sulfur and charcoal only. Here is the original patent formulation of Pyrodex which has been modified slightly but still the primary ingredients are the same:
45 parts of potassium nitrate
9 parts of charcoal
6 parts of sulfur
19 parts of potassium perchlorate
11 parts of sodium benzoate
6 parts of dicyanamide
1 to 4 parts of water

2. Pyrodex is to be charged on a volume basis only to a BP charge, not by a scale weight charge because it is 30% lighter than black powder

3. Since wads in a shoulder necked case are a NO NO (below the shoulder), Hodgdon is wishy washy in their words using fillers for shouldered neck cases and the Beaumont and Vetterli both have shoulders ... if you need to use a wad for filler - use florist foam. It's the stuff florists stick the stems of flowers into when they made a floral arrangement

4. He did not reference you to the published loading notes for Pyrodex, which I recommend you read and use as your guidelines ... http://www.hodgdon.com/loading.html

Having 19 parts of potassium perchlorate, I'd be danged careful of even dropping a can of the stuff. Not to mention the rust!

All I know is that Pyrodex P shoots great in my Beaumont and that I want to start using it in my Swiss Vetterli.
There's almost no fouling and that I have to clean REAL good after shooting just like with BP.

I thought I had the answer.
All I have now is more questions.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin