HAWKEN WOODSMAN

[DuncaninFrance]

I have been trying to get some accessories together before the Hawken arrives.
Some bits I already have because of my 1858 Remy so Powder, Scales etc are not needed.

New Lee mold, some patches , ball starter and muzzle protector from Henry Krank. better price than buying here in France and a very good service too.

[DuncaninFrance]

Well the shipment from Henry Krank arrived today - posted the 17th June so quite good.
Need to get some balls cast now.

Also, heard from the contact where I am buying the gun that BP is going to need storing in a magazine at the gun shop .
A lot of owners won't pay for the extra storage facilities to be built so won't stock BP or the price will go up to cover the works.
Going to buy a bit extra I think!

[Niner]

Did I read this right? If you have a pound or two of BP you have to have it stored at a gun shop? Or have some special storage facility built on your own property? What's with that? What about smokeless powder?

[joseyclosey]

A certificate and conditions apply for keeping, transporting and useing BP in the UK Robert, i assume France is similar.

http://www.mlagb.com/news/legislation/mser2005.htm

and here....

http://www.black-powder.co.uk/documentation.htm

Explosive Documentation Guidelines
If you wish to load and shoot a Black Powder gun of any sort then you must first obtain a COER 3 - Certificate to Acquire and Keep Explosives. This form is available from your local Constabulary and is currently free of charge. This Certificate lasts for three years. The maximum allowance for personal usage is currently 15 kilo's. The UN numbers relating to Black Powder are UN 0027 & UN 0028.

Prior to obtaining an Explosive Certificate it is possible for you to shoot a Black Powder gun if it is loaded by someone who has an Explosive Certificate ie. for training purposes, subject to you having the correct documentation and being a member of the club.

From the 26th April 2005, and under the provisions of the Manufacture & Storage of Explosive Regulations 2005, with effect from Grant or Renewal of your Explosives Certificate, containers of Black Powder must be kept in a box constructed of 18mm plywood. Where a box holds more than one container, each individual container must be separated by a 6mm wooden partition that is securely fixed to the outer walls of the box. Each compartment must allow 30% additional height between the top of the container and the inside of the lid.

A text only verion of The Manufacture and Storage of Explosives Regulations 2005 (SI Number 2005/1082) is available on-line from the Office of Public Sector Information (OPSI). A print version is also available and is published by The Stationery Office Limited as the The Manufacture and Storage of Explosives Regulations 2005, ISBN 0110727649.

An Approved Code of Practice (ACOP) and guidance has been published by the Health & Safety Executive (HSE) and can be ordered direct from the HSE or via The Stationery Office. (Title: Manufacture and storage of explosives. Subtitle: Manufacture and Storage of Explosives Regulations 2005. Approved Code of Practice and Guidance. ISBN: 0717628167. Price: £20.95). See also the Explosives - Shooting and Historical Re-enactment pages on the HSE web site.

When you have obtained an Explosive Certificate to Acquire & Keep explosives this entitles you to buy (subject to a minimum age of 16 years old) and to store explosives. THIS DOES NOT ENTITLE YOU TO TRANSPORT EXPLOSIVES.

To allow you to transport explosives you must now obtain a POMSTER document. This stands for The Placing On the Market and Supervision of Transfers of Explosives Regulations 1993 or is more commonly known as a Recipient Competent Authority Transfer Document (RCA).

To obtain an RCA Document you must first obtain your Explosive Certificate and then send this with a covering letter (sample) to:

HSE
Explosives Inspectorate
1.2 Redgrave Court
Merton Rd
Bootle
Merseyside
L20 7HS

Tel 0151 951 3775

You can also fax your Certificate and letter on: 0151 951 3891

The HSE are usually very good and will send your RCA Document by return. Again this is currently free of charge. You RCA Document will always be co-terminus with your Explosive Certificate. More informtion can be found at http://www.hse.gov.uk/explosives/inform ... ooting.htm

Once you have obtained your Explosive Certificate and RCA Document you will then be able to acquire, transport and store explosives. You will need this documentation with you when you purchase black powder as the supplier will need to see them. You must also carry the documents with you when in possession of Black Powder.

[Niner]

That's interesting, Joe. But what makes them think that a box made out of plywood of a particular discription, makes powder storage particularly safe?

From the 26th April 2005, and under the provisions of the Manufacture & Storage of Explosive Regulations 2005, with effect from Grant or Renewal of your Explosives Certificate, containers of Black Powder must be kept in a box constructed of 18mm plywood. Where a box holds more than one container, each individual container must be separated by a 6mm wooden partition that is securely fixed to the outer walls of the box. Each compartment must allow 30% additional height between the top of the container and the inside of the lid.

And if you get a license to carry powder around in some amount, what do you have to carry it around in? What if you just have a flask full of BP for a trip to do a little target practise? Do you have to carry it in a plywood box?

I bet my storage of bullets and powder would cause a case of apoplexy at least. I'll add a few snaps.

And I see where you can't store powder in a metal can with a metal lid...which is the long time way BP came for years and some brands are still that way I'd imagine, although Pyrodex comes in plastic containers. And I'm sure using surplus ammo cans would cause a big problem as well. My last real black powder I stored in the cans they came in inside of metal ammo cans. It's a wonder I'm still alive to tell about it.

[DuncaninFrance]

NO, NO, NO ..................................................The possible restriction will only apply to the retailer who will have to have a secure and separate place to store the powder. This will mean an additional expense for the retailer and it is thought that some will say - forget it - therefor, fewer suppliers - therefor higher prices
I can buy as much as I want, transport as much as I want and keep it at home, wherever I want, without any certification or control.

[Aughnanure]

Wow!!! Wait till they find out about petrol.

[Niner]

Thanks for clearing that up, Duncan. Glad to see that the French haven't got to controlling black powder to the extent it is in some places.

[DuncaninFrance]

You know, I think it would be as good idea to create an alternative organization that could award a standard for sensible and straightforward solutions to things.
Instead of ISO you could have SARO Sense and Reason Organisation. And award Standards for good practice and limiting bureaucracy

[Dave 101]

Its like the bods at Health and Safety they have to keep thinking up more and more ridiculous H&S laws otherwise they are out of a job , and if they cant impose their will on us they know that no one is actualy listening to them .
I was watching a program on the TV last about H&S in the emergency services , a girl had fallen in to a dissused mine shaft in a field the fire and ambulance guys wanted to get in their and rescue her , she had facial head injury and was laying in water one firemen went down the shaft and a paramedic was just about to do the same when the FB officer turned he said no way and ordered the fireman out , he refused to leave the girl it took six hours to sort it out as to how they were going to get her out , unfortunately as she did get to the top she had a fatal heart attack .
I was in the ambulance service in the 1980s and it was accepted you may well end up in danger but that was part of the job , if you couldnt accept that then you shouldnt be doing it .
Times have changed to many lawyers thats the trouble and people looking to make money .

Dave