Kentucky rifle at the range today

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Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby Niner » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:14 pm

Went out to the range today. Took the BP 50, Spanish made , Kentucky rifle along. I had a little left of some actual FFg black power and a full flask of Pyrodex RS equal to it. Both shot about the same. The FFG is really getting some age on it. It came to me in a round about way from my brother from a guy cleaning out a garage in a house he bought next door to him..... years ago. It was old then... probably made in the early 60's would be my guess. It still functions and makes lots of smoke. The Pyrodex shoots a bit higher on a target with the same 50 grain load...by volume of course.

I was shooting patched round ball .... none of that maxi bullet stuff.

The rifle was shooting ok, but I was having a hard time with the sights in the glare of the sun and my not so good right eye wasn't up to the challenge. I was pointing more than aiming. It also didn't help that the teen a couple of benches down was shooting an auto 22 and the spent cases were pelting me about every time I got ready to shoot.... :loco:

The two small piles of power show the slightly larger grain "real" BP on the left and the slightly smaller grain Pyrodex on the right.
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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby DuncaninFrance » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:49 pm

was shooting an auto 22 and the spent cases were pelting me about every time I got ready to shoot....


You should have picked up all the cases and waited till he was ready to shoot again then pelted him with a whole handfull at once :evil:

Looks like an enjoyable day anyway Robert.

We have a fun afternoon at the club next Saturday and I will try and get some pics of it.
Duncan

What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? -- W.C. Fields
"Many of those who enjoy freedom know little of its price."
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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby Dutch Mosin » Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:47 pm

That looks like a day well spent Robert.(except for the .22 cases :( ).
I picked up my Ardesa(Traditions) Hawken Woodsman this weekend in Germany.
I will try it out for the first time coming Sunday.
A full report and pictures of course ASAP after the shoot.

Image
Picture taken in Germany this morning.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin
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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby Niner » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:16 pm

I look forward to your report, Martin. I bet your new rifle will be a lot of fun to shoot.
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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby DuncaninFrance » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:40 am

Who's a happy Dutchman then :D :D :D
Duncan

What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? -- W.C. Fields
"Many of those who enjoy freedom know little of its price."
You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something.

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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby Dutch Mosin » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:19 am

DuncaninFrance wrote:Who's a happy Dutchman then :D :D :D


:NET: I AM :NET: :D :D :D


Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin
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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby Dutch Mosin » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:32 pm

I guess I'm almost ready for coming Sunday.

Here's my load data for this weekend:
* 40gn Pyrodex P
* pre oiled 0.010 patches by OX-YOKE (thanks Duncan :D )
* 125 gn round bullet by H&N (Haendler & Natermann) cal .440
* Percussion cap by Dynamit Nobel No. 1075 plus

Image

I'll keep you posted.


Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin
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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby joseyclosey » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:35 pm

One of our club members was shooting his .45 Kentucky rifle with BP and ball on Saturday and he seemed to be doing ok with it.
I didn't get time to find out his loads unfortunately as i was busy as RCO for the day.

Have fun on Sunday Martin,

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Ardesa Hawken Woodsman rifle at the range coming Sunday

Postby Dutch Mosin » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:49 pm

Thanks Joe.
I'm having fun already.
I should have done this much sooner.............I think. :D
Let's just wait and see what happens next Sunday.

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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby Niner » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:01 pm

Martin, you might want to add a capper to make it easier to put the caps on the nipples. And it's best to get one that is straight line, rather than curved or 90 degree, because it works with all sorts of guns and angled ones are of limited use. And you might want an adjustable powder measure instead of those pre measured capsules. If you use a flask you could get spouts sized to the grain loads you normally use and just tip the spout with your thumb over the opening, let the spring close the spout, turn upright and there is your load.....works better for pistols than rifles because of the lighter loads. BP and Pyrodex are measured traditionally by volume rather than weight so this works just fine and is considered the "normal" way to do it by most people I know.

You might want a stand alone fiberglass loading rod that is longer than the loading rod that comes with the gun. It should have multiple attachments.... loading ram, cleaning jag, and screw for pulling an occasional lead ball. You can also put a band of marking tape on the shaft to mark the depth of an empty barrel.
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Ardesa Hawken Woodsman rifle at the range coming Sunday

Postby Dutch Mosin » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:35 pm

Robert,

Thanks for your reply.
I really appreciate all these tips.

A capper is a great idea.
I think I'll order one ASAP.
That goes for the band of marking tape too.

I already bought a longer loading rod some time ago.
Last weekend I bought some of the attachments you mentioned.

I can be very short about the capsules.
I have to use these.
It's in our gun law.

I can't wait until Sunday. :D

Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin
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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby DuncaninFrance » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:52 am

You might want a stand alone fiberglass loading rod that is longer than the loading rod that comes with the gun. It should have multiple attachments.... loading ram, cleaning jag, and screw for pulling an occasional lead ball. You can also put a band of marking tape on the shaft to mark the depth of an empty barrel.


I made myself an aluminium rod and marked it with a line showing the Loaded depth and not the empty barrel depth. That way you know that your charge and ball are properly rammed home without any hollows in the powder.
I scribed a line rather than taped one so it doesn't come off with ware. :D :D
Duncan

What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? -- W.C. Fields
"Many of those who enjoy freedom know little of its price."
You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something.

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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby Niner » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:00 am

My notion to do it the other way around is because:

1. I know when the gun is completely unloaded.

2. I know if there is about a half inch gap it's because I forgot to put the powder in and that's why there is no bang. :oops: And just about everybody will do this eventually..... long after one is so sure of the loading process as a habit that his mind is on something else when he goes through the loading motions.

It is still possible to put on another tape marker for whatever you have for a full load if you like. But if you tap the rod down on the ball a couple of times, you know the load is seated firmly without any mark I'd think. Tape is cheap enough. You could have a full and an empty mark. To each his own habits.

Another thing about using tape is... one mark or set of marks will not do for every gun. That's why you use tape and replace it according to indication requirements.
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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby DuncaninFrance » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:24 pm

One rod per gun Robert. I couldn't use a rod for the left hand carbine on the right hand rifle (?) or vice versa.
Of course, that supposes you have more than one piece, which in Martins case -and mine - isn't the case ;)
Each to their own and thank goodness others are happy to share their knowledge and ideas. :razz: :razz:
Duncan

What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? -- W.C. Fields
"Many of those who enjoy freedom know little of its price."
You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something.

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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby Niner » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:43 pm

I couldn't use a rod for the left hand carbine on the right hand rifle (?) or vice versa


Sure you could....if both barrels were the same length and both used the same loads....and no matter if you used an empty barrel measure or a loaded barrel measure on the same loading rod. But if you have one loading rod and several guns with different barrel lengths and calibers.... then...well you get the picture.

If what you do works for you, Duncan, I don't wish to try and convince you to do otherwise. There is no written in stone one right way to do anything. If that were so the Brits would drive on the right side of the road because all of their steering wheels would be on the left side of the car caused by the larger demand in the car making world. :D
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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby DuncaninFrance » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:14 pm

Don't you believe it Robert :loco: :loco: :loco:
Duncan

What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? -- W.C. Fields
"Many of those who enjoy freedom know little of its price."
You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something.

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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby Niner » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:27 pm

One positive thing about Duncans method is that if you managed to put a double load in a gun you would notice it. I know I have read some place how in some major battles of the US Civil war some rifles were found after the battle that had been loaded a number of times and not fired at all..... probably just as well considering.
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Hawken Woodsman

Postby Dutch Mosin » Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:44 pm

Took my Ardesa(Traditions) Hawken Woodsman to the range today.
In one word....FANTASTIC.....
Matches for this rifle are shot at 50 meters, so I put up the target at this distance.

I fired 10 rounds and loved it.
All round balls hit the target and most of them even close to "the black" :D

Image

I still have to learn a lot, but I don't mind a bit.
After the 5th shot I noticed that loading started to get difficult, but cleaning the barrel with Ballistol mixed with some water got rid of that problem.
I think that when I clean after every 3rd shot, loading will be no problem at all.

Cleaning was easy.
I cleaned the barrel at the range with a couple of patches and at home I filled up a bucket with hot soapy water and cleaned the barrel thoroughly.
I just love Pyrodex P.

There was just one minor problem.
Getting the barrel out of the stock was no problem, but putting it back was.
I had to loosen the tang screw to hook it back in.
Maybe I did something wrong, but I don't know what.

All in all I had a FANTASTIC day. :D :D :D
I think.......NO....I'm sure I found myself a new hobby.

Some pictures:

Image

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Image

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Image

Image

Image


I think I'll take this one to the range again next week.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin
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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby Niner » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:50 pm

Loosening the tang screw to get the barrel unhooked is pretty much normal. It will become second nature to you eventually.
Glad shooting the gun was a happy experience.
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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby DuncaninFrance » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:05 am

Well I am so glad that you enjoyed yourself Martin - just think what it would have been like if you hadn't :shock:
I hope that it lived up to everything we said or we would have egg on our faces!!
If you ever get to passing by our place you will have to bring me some Pyrodex to try out :cool: :cool:
Duncan

What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? -- W.C. Fields
"Many of those who enjoy freedom know little of its price."
You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something.

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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby Dutch Mosin » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:11 pm

Thanks Robert and Duncan for your replies.
I really enjoyed myself and I think muzzle loading is here to stay.
What a fantastic part of our hobby this is.

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Martin
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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby Dutch Mosin » Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:08 pm

Been to the range this morning.
Tried the Hawken again but with two different loads.
Last week I started with 40gn of Pyrodex P.
Today I reduced that load to 39 and 38gn.
Results were a bit better.
Almost all shots were at the right height, but mostly to the right.
No cleaning until the 5th shot gave bad results
I noticed that after swabbing the bore every 2nd shot results got better.

So.............same player shoots again next week.
I will reduce the load further to 36 and 35gn of Pyrodex P.
I just love this muzzle loader.

I will also try Windex (called Glassex over here) to clean between shots.

I will keep you all posted.


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Martin
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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby DuncaninFrance » Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:58 pm

Martin.
I always wipe my Remington revolver over with car screenwash between cylinders but having changed from Chasse powder (FF) to FFF I find the bore stays clean although I do pull it through a few times before going home.
Duncan

What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? -- W.C. Fields
"Many of those who enjoy freedom know little of its price."
You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something.

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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby Dutch Mosin » Sun May 13, 2012 3:48 pm

DuncaninFrance wrote:Martin.
I always wipe my Remington revolver over with car screenwash between cylinders but having changed from Chasse powder (FF) to FFF I find the bore stays clean although I do pull it through a few times before going home.


Thanks for the info Duncan.
I tried windex(it's called glasex over here) after every 2nd shot with great results yesterday.
I have to try how WD-40 works for me next time.
After that I'll try some car screenwash.

Pyrodex P can be compared to a FFF powder.
I only need a couple of patches to clean the bore.

I reduced the load to 30 gn yesterday and results were much, much better then I expected. :mrgreen:

Some data:

Powder: 30gn Pyrodex P
Bullet: 125gn .440 H&N bullet.
Patch: OX-YOKE pre oiled 0.01" thick

No picture of the target this time.
I had no camera with me. :oops:
Got some rangetime coming up next Thursday.
I'll post a picture of the target then.

What a fantastic hobby we have. :bigsmile:


Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin
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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby Dutch Mosin » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:29 pm

OK, it's been a while since my last post on the Hawken Woodsman.
Last week I loaded the weapon and it wouldn't fire.
Turned out that I forgot to fire 2 or 3 caps before loading it.
There was still to much oil in the nipple and maybe even a bit in the barrel.
I had to remove the bolsterscrew and put a bit of FFFFG powder in it.
That worked, but I can tell you that I will never forget to fire a couple of caps before I load the rifle.

Today was totally different.
I tried a new load and instead of just pushing the ball and patch down the barrel I pushed it down using a dry patch.
The pre oiled patches contain a lot of oil and the first shots were always on target, so I thought I'd use this dry patch when pushing down the ball and at the same time get rid of a bit of oil in the barrel.
That worked.
Results were much better compared to last time.

Here's today's target picture.
Some load data first.

Rifle: Ardesa(Traditions) Hawken Woodsman.
Caliber: .45
Twist: 1:66"
Bullet: 125gn .440" Roundball
Patch: OL-YOKE 0.01" pre oiled (thanks Duncan)
Powder: 26gn Pyrodex P
Distance: 50 meters


Image

I just love this rifle. :mrgreen:

Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin :NET:
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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby DuncaninFrance » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:22 am

Certainly killed that one Martin!
Duncan

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"Many of those who enjoy freedom know little of its price."
You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something.

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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby Dutch Mosin » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:16 am

Very true Duncan, but I still want to try a .445 bullet instead of the .440 and see what happens.
After I have determined which bullet is best for my rifle, I will buy myself a LEE bullet mold and cast my own instead of buying the ones from H&N.
I've also ordered some patches that are slightly thicker then the ones I use now.
Maybe not necessary, but I just want to see what happens when I try a different patch bullet combo.
I'll keep you posted.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin
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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby Dutch Mosin » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:09 pm

I took my Hawken Woodsman to the range today.
Been trying different kind of loads, patches and lube in the last couple of months.
In the end I only changed the patches from 0.010" to 0.012" and lubed them with a mixture of Nivea and Ballistol.
I used the target in the picture for an on line muzzle loader match on a German site.
13 shots, best 10 count (just just like the matches I shoot on Dutch ranges).
Shot number 13 landed in the 5 just outside the picture.
Results are not bad......I think. :D
I love this rifle.
Should have bought one years ago.

Load data:

Rifle: Ardesa(Traditions) Hawken Woodsman.
Caliber: .45
Twist: 1:66"
Bullet: 125gn .440" Roundball
Patch: 0.012"
Lube: Nivea/Ballistol mixture
Powder: 26gn Pyrodex P
Distance: 50 meters



Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin
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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby Niner » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:36 pm

Good shooting. Nice tight group for a muzzleloader.
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Re: Kentucky rifle at the range today

Postby DuncaninFrance » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:34 am

You are certainly enjoying yourself Martin!

I remember back in the early 90's in the UK that a friend of mine had a BP rifle.
He used to save the old chip pan fat when it was done and use it as a lube.
He used to wrap the ball in a piece of IZAL Medicated toilet paper and then dip it in the liquid fat and then let it dry.

IZAL used to be included in 24 Rationpacks. I remember a National Guard Sergeant on exchange one year saying " Man, I want to wipe it not spread it!"

Later all military toilet paper became 'Cumfybum' but was pink! A great colour for DPM clad grunts :cool: :cool: :cool:
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Duncan

What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? -- W.C. Fields
"Many of those who enjoy freedom know little of its price."
You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something.

http://www.twgpp.org
http://www.andrewsinfrance.co.uk

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