Since the WWI threads are really active. A look at the weapons

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Since the WWI threads are really active. A look at the weapons

Postby Niner » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:09 pm

I figured I'd post something milsurp related for a change. My focus to begin with is one of the US made New England Westinghouse Mosin Nagants. They were contracted by the British for the Russians and began being made in 1915 by the "neutral" United States to aid the Europeans in killing each other. Some made it to Russia out of a total production...just by Westinghouse and not counting Remington...of over 700,000 rifles. Note in the photos my "prized" NEW with the SA stamp on the side. That rifle has been through the mill in the early to mid 20th Century wars and changed ownership a few times. And note next to it, in two photos, an identical to it Imperial Tula made two years later in 1917 that ended up in Bulgaria at some juncture. The last photo is a group picture of three of the foot soldier weapons for three of the major players in WWI. The British SMLE made in 1904, Mosin Nagant ,USA made for Russia 1915, or there about, and German Mauser by Oberndorf 1918. If it were a barrel measuring contest, the Russians win by finger length.

The Imperial is the one with the sling rings in the stock.
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Re: Since the WWI treads are the only ones really active

Postby Miller Tyme » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:54 pm

Very nice pair of M91's you got there Robert.
“The only real power comes out of a long rifle" - Joseph Stalin
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Re: Since the WWI treads are the only ones really active

Postby Niner » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:44 pm

Think I'll continue with this WWI string. Feel free ... anyone... to join in. Show us some weapon in your collection that could have been used in WWI and tell us something about it.

Today I thought I'd start with the disposable magazine group of rifles. The Nagant and the Mauser had enclosed magazines that were loaded from stripper clips. The Enfield had a detachable magazine but the British soldier was expected to load by stripper clip the same as if it weren't detachable. The British soldier could load twice as many rounds at the time as the Russians and Germans which must have seemed an encouragement....you know... one Tommy can kill twice as many Krauts before reloading as the Krauts could kill of his side.

The one I'm starting with is the Mannlicher-Carcano 1891 infantry rifle. Italy used this one in both WWI and WWII. It had a smaller barrel ring at the breech and fired a smaller caliber than the competition with a rimless round in 6.5x52. You inserted and locked in a loaded clip over a spring lever that pressed up through the clip forcing the ammo upward. When the last round was fired the U shape clip fell out the bottom. Kinda the opposite of the M1 Garand that when it fired the last round in a U shape clip it tossed the empty with a clink out the top of the open breech.

The thing most people remember about the Carcano is that Oswald used one to assassinate President Kennedy in 1963.
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Re: Since the WWI treads are the only ones really active

Postby Niner » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:52 pm

Here is a Carcano clip without the ammo. And with the ammo.
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Re: Since the WWI treads are the only ones really active

Postby Niner » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:23 pm

Here's another of those load the full clip and discard the empty clip rifles. The Repetier-Gewehr M1895 with a design credit to Mannlicher. There were about 3.5 million made for Austria-Hungary. There was a shorter calvary version too. Later.. after WWI lots of the long rifles were cut down to carbine length.
Besides having a disposable ammo clip it also had a straight pull bolt. Pull back unccocked and push forward cocked. You could see a prominent cocking lever to the back that showed you it was cocked. The sights were set up for volley fire. 2400 paces was not something you actually aimed at. I think it was a mind fart left over from the days of the long bow when the masses of enemy lined up shoulder to shoulder and could be delt damage beyond eyeball to eyeball fighting range. A long distance rain of bullets idea that other weapons of the time still shared.

It fired a powerful bottle shaped 8mm cartridge... more powerful than the Carcano but not the same cartridge as the Mauser 8mm. It had an odd battle sight. Lift up the arm and the v at the bottom was 300 paces. Drop the sight blade flat and the v was 500 paces.

Both the carbine and the long rifle produce a decided kick to them when fired. By WWII they were considered second line weapons and the rifles were cut down to carbines to a large extent.
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Re: Since the WWI treads are the only ones really active

Postby NLMosin » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:27 pm

Here are my WW1 rifles...
This one is a Finn Capture.
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While this one is from the time frame it never went anywhere. On the bottom of the barrel is a reject date. Probably was killing whitetail during the war...
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This one scrubbed by the Balkans no doubt.
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Another Finn capture.
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One of the 100,000 built for the White War.
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Looking for a 1960 T53. Always wanted a Mosin as old as I am.... :lol:
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Re: Since the WWI treads are the only ones really active

Postby Niner » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:54 am

Nice collection NLMosin. Thanks for contributing. Anybody else want to play.... Before I have to dig out something else to add to the string?
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Re: Since the WWI treads are the only ones really active

Postby joseyclosey » Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:07 pm

You've covered the M95 already Robert but I thought I'd still add this pic of my Steyr with some of the ex mil 8X56R I use. One of my fave rifles.
Joe

Last edited by joseyclosey on Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Since the WWI treads are the only ones really active

Postby Niner » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:19 pm

Joe, your clips made me go back and check what I had shown before. I think I was showing another version of the Mannlicher clip that looks like the one in your photo. I found what I know is a Carcano clip and redid my earlier post. :oops:
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Re: Since the WWI treads are the only ones really active

Postby Niner » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:00 pm

The 1903 Springfield was the rifle of choice for the US entering into WWI. It had a bolt action that mirrored the Mauser...in fact Springfield Armory had to pay royalties to Mauser. It had that odd feature that converted from magazine fed to single shot that was military fashionable around the time it went into production. Note the On and Off feature. Off turned the magazine feed off. The British had a like feature with a lever cutting their magazine off. The 03 used a 30.06 cartridge... that way all nations could use something different thereby assuring that no other nation could capture and shoot their ammo I suspect. Being shot by ones own ammo would be adding insult to injury.

I don't have an O3 but I have the successor the 03A. The two were essentially the same ...except.. the sight on the 03 was an elaborate ladder affair with a collection of applications.. peep, V, v notch, whatever and wishful thinking out to many hundred yards. The 03A with furniture cast parts rather than the 03's machined had a simpler but much better singular peep sight. It also had a dial in windage adjustment. It wasn't used until after WWI. The 03A, however, continued in use into WWII and afterward in various ways meeting particular needs.

The US started their part of the war with the 03 but the numbers they had on hand wouldn't fill the bill so they adopted the 1917 Enfield which could be produced quicker by companies already geared up for it. A benefit of that previous "neutrality" . The caliber was changed to 30.06 and filled the supply gap. The US soldiers are said to have prefered , in no uncertain terms, the O3.

The O3 is on top and the 03A3 on bottom in the rifle photo.
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