1941 Savage No.4 Mk 1(T) - Lots of pictures

[Amatikulu]

Some time ago I came across a gentleman that had a Savage sniper for sale. After some protracted negotiations, I finally took possession of the rifle and have been trying to piece together its history. I have come to the conclusion that it is a genuine No.4 Mark 1 (T) converted at Enfield in 1942 to a "T" sniper rifle and then FTR'd in 1945, before eventually being sold and exported.





Here it is:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/ ... 001031.jpg[/pic]





This is stuck to the top of the chest and was addressed to the person I bought it from. Note $125 in 1961 or maybe 1967.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/ ... 000974.jpg[/pic]





The chest has had many markings painted out but I can see it was issued to the "Northamptons" See bottom center


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/ ... 000975.jpg[/pic]





A tag on the side has the correct serial number marked on it along with some other official writing:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/ ... 000978.jpg[/pic]





The chest had the scope in a canvas covered can - shown here:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/ ... 000988.jpg[/pic]





A front view of the can:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/ ... 000990.jpg[/pic]





A rear view of the can:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/ ... 000991.jpg[/pic]





The can is a definite match for the mount and the scope as all the numbers match. Unfortunately they do not match the rifle <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START : --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":">;





Now to the rifle - the butt socket:


OC864


FTR


US "Flaming Bomb"


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/ ... 001014.jpg[/pic]





The receiver:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/ ... 001011.jpg[/pic]





The "TR" - there is no "T" visible on the receiver wall - This worried me at first but research has confirmed that not all rifles fitted with telescopes were marked with the "T"





http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/ ... 001013.jpg[/pic]





Enfield inspectors marks on the wood:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/ ... 001007.jpg[/pic]


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/ ... 001003.jpg[/pic]





The scope numbers - note the 1906 for the original Mark 1 scope that was fitted - the other number is for a Mark 3 scope - just not the one that came with it.





http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/ ... 001015.jpg[/pic]





And finally, the barrel which haas an Enfield Inspectors mark and a "45" date suggesting to me that it was fited with a new barrel at Enfield in 1945, this would be consistent with the FTR mark on the receiver and the fitting of a Mark 3 scope.





http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/ ... 001018.jpg[/pic]





OK, have at it guys, am I right, is this sufficient proof?




<p><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>""There is nothing so pleasing as to be shot at by one’s enemy without result."


~Winston Churchill~</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->





</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p089.ezboard.com/bmilsurpafterho ... atikulu</A> at: 5/15/05 8:35 am

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[bradtx]

Amatikulu, Here's what I think, for better or worse:


a) The absense of the <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>(T)</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> suggests that it was not final inspected by the MoD.


b) The 'scope number suggests that it is not one of the un-finished conversions. The 1906 S/N would be a W. Watson & Son manufactured Mk.1 'scope. 28294 would be a Kershaw Mk.3





According to Laidler, barrel and 'scope replacement was forwarded to the REME.





All-in-all, you've a legit, complete, non-matching Savage (T) rifle.





Does that sound fair?





Regards, Brad

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[Amatikulu]

Brad,





I had this response on another forum when I questioned the "T" not being present:





<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"The British issued instructions (Army Council Instruction 399 of 1944, dated 31 May 1944) which addressed the fact that some rifles had left the factories without the (T) designator. Units were ordered to apply this locally. It follows that not all were 'caught' at unit or depot level. </em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->





It follows that with my rifle being from the first shipment of Savage rifles to hit Britain after Dunkirk, it was rushed through the sniper conversion program at Enfield and then issued for service. The fact that it needed the FTR in 1945 suggests it saw hard service during the war. In 1945 by the time the FTR was completed, the war could have been over and thus it went to stores. The ticket in the earlier pictures is dated 1961 (it might be 1967), so it looks like it was surplused fairly early on - hence the excellent condition of the rifle.







<p><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>""There is nothing so pleasing as to be shot at by one’s enemy without result."


~Winston Churchill~</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

[bradtx]

Amatikulu, Thanks for sharing that info, I didn't know about it.





As I see it, the absense of the <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>(T)</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> on a later converted becomes suspect. Early on the system of checks and balances wasn't quite set and if the inspector was out to lunch, the completed rifle was placed in a box with eleven others and sent off to do it's duty with as much haste as possible.





Someone <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>could</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> debate that the butt-stock came frome another (T) rifle, but I think not as 'scope's S/Ns align pretty well with it's conversion and FTR history.





Please let us know how it shoots.





Regards, Brad <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :tex --><img src=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v51/N ... all/Tx.gif ALT=":tex">;

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[eckman44]

If you pull the butt stock off - the rifles serial number should be on the top ledge of the butt stock that fits into the butt socket. I suppose that early T's had this done like the later T's I have .... Worth a look ..

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[dromia]

Congratulations on the rifle Neil and thanks for the post.





"Proof" well I don't know about that, you should know that proving anything about Enfields is difficult, they don't deal in absolutes.





You are in the greyer areas of Enfield ID here with the early Savage No4 mk1 (T) conversions.





As Eckman said the rifle number should be on the but stock, however these rifles went through a lot and unit armoures would make the best out of what they had so it is not unusual to find mismatched butts with restamped scope numbers.





The way the original scope number has been struck out looks a bit odd to me, it doesn't look contempraneous with the restruck numbers, but so what.





None of us can really proove much about our rifles we have to go on the balance of probabilities. Your rifle doesn't fit the "book" interpretation of what such a rifle should look like, but how many of them do anyway, thats the beauty of Enfields.





Your hypothesis could well be correct and in this area its as good an explanation as any as to its history, there's more pluses than minuses so it probably is an early Savage conversion.





Whatever its true story is its still a cracking and interesting example of a classic Enfield that will keep the unfortunate and misguided purists sweating cobs over it.





Enjoy it. ;





I'm jealous. ;





Let us know how she shoots and any further info that you may glean about it.

<p>http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/ ... _Badge.gif" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END-->





Adam.





Why don't you visit .





</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p089.ezboard.com/bmilsurpafterho ... >dromia</A>  http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/ ... andCLR.gif[/pic] at: 5/16/05 12:40 pm

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