Adams Mark III ('Model of 1872') .450 revolver acquired ...
Moderator: Niner
- GrantRCanada
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:42 pm
Adams Mark III ('Model of 1872') .450 revolver acquired ...
I am pleased to announce the acquisition, from a well-known dealer here in Canada, of a rather nice addition to my collection of Victorian-era British Empire cartridge firearms ... an Adams Mark III .450 revolver, also referred to in commercial production versions (such as an officer would purchase for personal use, for example) as the 'Model of 1872'.
(These images are from the dealer's website, as I will not likely have the revolver until toward the end of the week - if then, what with the Xmas parcel load on the poatal system ....)
The .450 Adams was the first official centerfire cartridge service revolver adopted by the British War Department - The "Mark I" Adams was actually a breechloading conversion of the primary percussion service revolver, as indicated by its official designation in the W.D. "List of Changes" entry 1738 of 26 Nov 1868 - "Deane & Adams' Revolver Pistol Converted to a Breech-Loader by Mr. J. Adams" - which referenced the fact that the conversions were performed by the Adams Patent Small Arms Company pursuant to certain patents of John Adams. The five-shot percussion revolvers had a one-piece frame and integral barrel:
The 1868 conversion to centerfire cartridge breechloader included a loading gate and bored-through replacement cylinder, with a fixed case-extraction rod mounted:
In February of 1872, the "Pistol, Adams' Central Fire, B.L. (Mark II)" was adopted - these revolvers were made as cartridge arms, with a two-piece frame and six-shot cylinder, but retaining the fixed ejector rod:
Shortly thereafter, John Adams convinced the War Department to also incorporate a pivoting ejector rod patented by him, and in August 1872 the "Pistol, Adams', Central Fire, B.L. (Mark III)" was formally adopted. The very brief List of Changes entry for this pattern simply states: "It differs from the previous pattern, Mark II (L.o.C. 2227) in having a more efficient extractor." As mentioned above, my new acquisition is this version.
When the North West Mounted Police were being set up (1873/74) Adams revolvers were ordered from the War Department, the request having specified that they should be of the "latest pattern". When the shipment of revolvers finally made it to Manitoba in mid-1874, where the Force had been assembled for its 'Great March West', it was discovered that sold-out-of-service Mark I revolvers had been sent (apparently by a commercial jobber) which had been so poorly packed that many were damaged, forcing armorers to piece together a reduced supply of serviceable weapons. (The late arrival of the revolvers, and the necessary repairs, delayed the departure of the Force for several weeks, and it finally got under way on July 8 1874.)
The War Department agreed to replace these first NWMP revolvers with Mark III revolvers, although they did not arrive until 1875 ... and then only 296 were received out of the shipment of 300, four having been stolen in transit! (My revolver has no NWMP provenance, unfortunately ... in fact, based upon its serial number (in the 17,000 range) it was undoubtedly manufactured quite a bit later than the Mark III's supplied to the Mounted Police, all known examples of which have serial numbers in the 5600 through 8300 range ...)
(These images are from the dealer's website, as I will not likely have the revolver until toward the end of the week - if then, what with the Xmas parcel load on the poatal system ....)
The .450 Adams was the first official centerfire cartridge service revolver adopted by the British War Department - The "Mark I" Adams was actually a breechloading conversion of the primary percussion service revolver, as indicated by its official designation in the W.D. "List of Changes" entry 1738 of 26 Nov 1868 - "Deane & Adams' Revolver Pistol Converted to a Breech-Loader by Mr. J. Adams" - which referenced the fact that the conversions were performed by the Adams Patent Small Arms Company pursuant to certain patents of John Adams. The five-shot percussion revolvers had a one-piece frame and integral barrel:
The 1868 conversion to centerfire cartridge breechloader included a loading gate and bored-through replacement cylinder, with a fixed case-extraction rod mounted:
In February of 1872, the "Pistol, Adams' Central Fire, B.L. (Mark II)" was adopted - these revolvers were made as cartridge arms, with a two-piece frame and six-shot cylinder, but retaining the fixed ejector rod:
Shortly thereafter, John Adams convinced the War Department to also incorporate a pivoting ejector rod patented by him, and in August 1872 the "Pistol, Adams', Central Fire, B.L. (Mark III)" was formally adopted. The very brief List of Changes entry for this pattern simply states: "It differs from the previous pattern, Mark II (L.o.C. 2227) in having a more efficient extractor." As mentioned above, my new acquisition is this version.
When the North West Mounted Police were being set up (1873/74) Adams revolvers were ordered from the War Department, the request having specified that they should be of the "latest pattern". When the shipment of revolvers finally made it to Manitoba in mid-1874, where the Force had been assembled for its 'Great March West', it was discovered that sold-out-of-service Mark I revolvers had been sent (apparently by a commercial jobber) which had been so poorly packed that many were damaged, forcing armorers to piece together a reduced supply of serviceable weapons. (The late arrival of the revolvers, and the necessary repairs, delayed the departure of the Force for several weeks, and it finally got under way on July 8 1874.)
The War Department agreed to replace these first NWMP revolvers with Mark III revolvers, although they did not arrive until 1875 ... and then only 296 were received out of the shipment of 300, four having been stolen in transit! (My revolver has no NWMP provenance, unfortunately ... in fact, based upon its serial number (in the 17,000 range) it was undoubtedly manufactured quite a bit later than the Mark III's supplied to the Mounted Police, all known examples of which have serial numbers in the 5600 through 8300 range ...)
Last edited by GrantRCanada on Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Grant Rombough
Medicine Hat, Alberta
Canada
Medicine Hat, Alberta
Canada
- GrantRCanada
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:42 pm
- GrantRCanada
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:42 pm
ADAMS REVOLVER ARRIVES!
I am pleased to announce that the Adams arrived this morning - and fortunately I am home "house-sitting" while a new furnace is being installed. (As a consequence, the work I was planning to get done at home hasn't been started yet ... ... but the revolver has definitely been well-handled, field-stripped and cleaned! )
I am also well pleased with the condition of the revolver - every bit as good as it appears in the dealer's photos I first posted. In particular:
- finish is a nice, even plum patina, though the wood grip is well worn, as was evident in the original photos.
- the revolver is indeed mechanically sound (as John Denner had indicated), with positive action and lockup .... well, as positive as I think these revolvers can be with a single cylinder stop operating in a square-ended groove ... the design lacks distinct cylinder stop notches.
- bore is bright and clean, with good rifling and no detectable pitting or even discoloration, though there appears to be a bit of minimal pitting in two or three of the chambers. However, it is very minor and the cylinder walls are quite stout, so I have no worries on that score.
- perhaps because this revolver is relatively late production, I was happy to discover that Webley .455 MkII cartridges chamber fully - others have indicated having .450 revolvers which will not accept that slightly longer case, and thus having to load dedicated .450 brass.
- so far, the only problem I have discovered is that there is a slight ding on the edge of one of the rim recesses on the rear face of the cylinder, which prevents a case from seating fully in that chamber without being forced. However, clearly that will be a quick and easy fix.
All in all, I must say that I am a very happy camper!
I am also well pleased with the condition of the revolver - every bit as good as it appears in the dealer's photos I first posted. In particular:
- finish is a nice, even plum patina, though the wood grip is well worn, as was evident in the original photos.
- the revolver is indeed mechanically sound (as John Denner had indicated), with positive action and lockup .... well, as positive as I think these revolvers can be with a single cylinder stop operating in a square-ended groove ... the design lacks distinct cylinder stop notches.
- bore is bright and clean, with good rifling and no detectable pitting or even discoloration, though there appears to be a bit of minimal pitting in two or three of the chambers. However, it is very minor and the cylinder walls are quite stout, so I have no worries on that score.
- perhaps because this revolver is relatively late production, I was happy to discover that Webley .455 MkII cartridges chamber fully - others have indicated having .450 revolvers which will not accept that slightly longer case, and thus having to load dedicated .450 brass.
- so far, the only problem I have discovered is that there is a slight ding on the edge of one of the rim recesses on the rear face of the cylinder, which prevents a case from seating fully in that chamber without being forced. However, clearly that will be a quick and easy fix.
All in all, I must say that I am a very happy camper!
Last edited by GrantRCanada on Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Grant Rombough
Medicine Hat, Alberta
Canada
Medicine Hat, Alberta
Canada
- GrantRCanada
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:42 pm
Managed my own picture of the Adams:
Having been told that some .450-chambered revolvers will not chamber the slightly longer .455 MkII case, I was very pleased to learn that this one readily accepts them .... so I won't need to have a third batch of brass! I do have some MkII .455 rounds loaded with Triple 7 BP substitute, but haven't made it out to the range to try the revolver yet .... (In fact, I am thinking even those may be too "hot" for the Adams and that I really ought to load some up with "basic black" ....)
Here's a scan of four different .450 cartridge headstamps ... click to enlarge ....
(I like to acquire at least one or two "original" display cartridges for each of my vintage firearms. Admittedly, these are all of the latest (MkIII) solid drawn brass configuration, rather than having the earlier "compisite' cases ... The round on the left is a loaded round, with a bullet apparently factory-crimped in place. It was purportedly a factory "dummy" cartridge, but I take that with a grain of salt ... might well simply be a round which somehow got through without a primer in place ...)
Having been told that some .450-chambered revolvers will not chamber the slightly longer .455 MkII case, I was very pleased to learn that this one readily accepts them .... so I won't need to have a third batch of brass! I do have some MkII .455 rounds loaded with Triple 7 BP substitute, but haven't made it out to the range to try the revolver yet .... (In fact, I am thinking even those may be too "hot" for the Adams and that I really ought to load some up with "basic black" ....)
Here's a scan of four different .450 cartridge headstamps ... click to enlarge ....
(I like to acquire at least one or two "original" display cartridges for each of my vintage firearms. Admittedly, these are all of the latest (MkIII) solid drawn brass configuration, rather than having the earlier "compisite' cases ... The round on the left is a loaded round, with a bullet apparently factory-crimped in place. It was purportedly a factory "dummy" cartridge, but I take that with a grain of salt ... might well simply be a round which somehow got through without a primer in place ...)
Last edited by GrantRCanada on Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Grant Rombough
Medicine Hat, Alberta
Canada
Medicine Hat, Alberta
Canada
-
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:25 am
- GrantRCanada
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:42 pm
MaximVickers:
The load which works very well for me is 10 grains (volume measure) of 2F Triple7 under the 265 grain hollowbase Webley-style bullet thrown by RCBS mould 45-265-RN-HB, in .455 MkII cases.
This load works extremely well in my WG Target revolver .... below is the very first target shot with my WG Target revolver (also shown below), using this load together with some rounds of another load of 13 gr. Triple7, which was really too "hot") .... The ratty appearance of the target is because I taped holes a few times with masking tape, but then removed the tape to scan the target, with the result that a lot of black ink pulled away with the tape ....
Anyway, this is a total of 35 rounds, all fired at 25 yards, using both loads mentioned above, as well as a few different "holds". Maximum horizontal spread is 5.25" center to center. The rather greater vertical spread is attributable to the different holds and different loads. (For example the ten lowest shots - two in the black and eight below the black - were ten of the "hotter" rounds ... with the usual result of impacting noticeably lower.)
Having seen what this revolver was capable of doing, I took some care with the last ten rounds of the 10 grain load (i.e. seated, double-handed hold with heels of the hands resting on the bench) which resulted in the "one-hole" group circled in the image - less than 1.5" vertical spread and less than 1.2" horizontal spread (center to center) ....
The load which works very well for me is 10 grains (volume measure) of 2F Triple7 under the 265 grain hollowbase Webley-style bullet thrown by RCBS mould 45-265-RN-HB, in .455 MkII cases.
This load works extremely well in my WG Target revolver .... below is the very first target shot with my WG Target revolver (also shown below), using this load together with some rounds of another load of 13 gr. Triple7, which was really too "hot") .... The ratty appearance of the target is because I taped holes a few times with masking tape, but then removed the tape to scan the target, with the result that a lot of black ink pulled away with the tape ....
Anyway, this is a total of 35 rounds, all fired at 25 yards, using both loads mentioned above, as well as a few different "holds". Maximum horizontal spread is 5.25" center to center. The rather greater vertical spread is attributable to the different holds and different loads. (For example the ten lowest shots - two in the black and eight below the black - were ten of the "hotter" rounds ... with the usual result of impacting noticeably lower.)
Having seen what this revolver was capable of doing, I took some care with the last ten rounds of the 10 grain load (i.e. seated, double-handed hold with heels of the hands resting on the bench) which resulted in the "one-hole" group circled in the image - less than 1.5" vertical spread and less than 1.2" horizontal spread (center to center) ....
Last edited by GrantRCanada on Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Grant Rombough
Medicine Hat, Alberta
Canada
Medicine Hat, Alberta
Canada
-
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:25 am