Muzzle Loading vs Breech Loading

dbm · Post by **dbm** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:23 am

I shot in the MLAGB's "Pedersoli Challenge" open competition last weekend, at the Associations ranges near Warwick.

In the 100m prone rifle event it was interesting to note the M/L target rifle shooters out shot the black powder B/L shooters. Seven shooters bettered 90x100 with the muzzle loader and only three did so with the breech loader: top three scores M/L were 97, 94, 93 and for the B/L were 92, 91, 91. I managed 92 with my .45 cal muzzle loader and 91 with my 40-65 rolling block.

All targets were shot prone with a two point sling for support (no cross sticks or writs rests); target used is the standard 50m ISSF pistol target with the 50mm dia 10 ring. 13 shots in 30 minutes with the best ten scoring shots to count.

Entries for the competition (notably in musket and rifle) were disappointingly low, especially considering that the top prizes donated by Pedersoli were a Tryon 'Maple' Rifle and a Le Page Match Pistol.

I won a Sharps rifle in the match last year, but no such luck for the main prizes this year!

David

stripperclip · Post by **stripperclip** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:57 am

interesting that the front stuffers out did the B/L folks must be taking your time loading and wanting to get each shot right helps as opposed to throwing in one of those new fangled cartridges and blasting away

dbm · Post by **dbm** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:13 pm

Actually the 13 shots in 30 minutes is hard work with a m/l match rifle.

Load powder - add card wad - wipe bore to control fouling - load bullet - assume prone position with sling - add cap - aim and fire - scope shot - break position and step to loading table to start cycle again.

Add one extra shot making 14 in total to include for a 'barrel warmer' and to make sure ignition is ok, and that leaves 2 minutes a shot with 2 minutes spare!

David

Post by **Niner** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:56 pm

What kind of rate of twist? What kind of ammo were you using?

Interesting load sequence. ..."Load powder - add card wad - wipe bore to control fouling - load bullet - assume prone position with sling - add cap - aim and fire". I take it you weren't shooting round ball ammo.

Could you give me a little better discription of ammo and theory here. I'm really curious.

dbm · Post by **dbm** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:14 am

The rifle is a Pedersoli Gibbs, .45 cal with 1:18 twist. It is a reproduction of a c1870 English percussion long range rifle. For 100m shooting I use grease groove bullets and for 200 - 1200 yds paper patch bullets. Bullet weight is 535 grains. I use pure lead for the grease groove bullet and 30:1 lead:tin mix for the paper patch bullet. Load is 80 grains of Swiss No.4 (1.5F) at 100m, 90 grains TPPH 200-600 yds and 95 grains to 1000 yards.

Powder is loaded, above which is placed a groove diameter card wad. This helps protect the base of the bullet. Wiping the bore above the card ensures consistency for each shot. The card seals the powder in place and prevents the damp patch spoiling the powder.

With paper patch bullets the bore needs to be clean and dry, so a damp then dry patch are used to clean. The short range 30 minute match does not really allow sufficient time for the appropriate level of cleaning between shots to use paper patch bullets. With a grease groove bullet i can just wipe with a damp patch, and if timing does become an issue only clean every other shot.

At a recent shoot I did experience severe fouling builing up just ahead of the powder column. I have been experimenting with wiping down to the breech, then adding powder/wad/bullet. I had worries of brushing fouling into the nipple, but this doesn't seem to have been an issue.

I am shooting at Bisley (500, 600, 900 and 1000yds) next weekend so that will give me chance to further test the changed cleaning regime.

The following weekend we have a match at 1000, 1100 and 1200 yards. And yes this is with muzzle laoding match rifles!

David

Post by **Niner** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:58 pm

I took a look at a Pedersoli site that listed the rifle and said it was a world champion target rifle. I can believe it. Looks like the projectile they mention is long and flat nosed. Is this the case with what you are shooting?

dbm · Post by **dbm** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:52 am

http://www.researchpress.co.uk/pics/lr_bullets.jpg[/pic]

These are typical of the bullets used. The paper patch one is what I shoot most of.... in fact I have around 80 to patch before next weekend.

David

stripperclip · Post by **stripperclip** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:39 am

with the length of those bullets I can understand the fast twist do you have over there the black powder substutes like triple 7 or pyrodex and would that be allowed in the matches or is it strictly BP only?

dbm · Post by **dbm** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:08 pm

BP substitutes are about but no one I shoot rifle with uses them. Muzzle Loaders Association of Great Britain (MLAGB - www.mlagb.com) and Muzzle Loaders Associations International Committee (MLAIC - www.mlaic.org do not permit their use in competition, and as they're the events I shoot mostly there's no point in developing a load for them.

David

Muzzle Loading vs Breech Loading

Muzzle Loading vs Breech Loading

What is your .45 Muzzleloader like?

That's a fast twist.