Pattern-1903 Bayonet

Things a soldier would carry other than firearms, ammo, or uniforms. Meaning equipment such as ammo pouches, bayonets, holsters, oil cans, cleaning equipment, etc.

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TomcatPC
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Pattern-1903 Bayonet

Post by TomcatPC » Tue May 24, 2011 9:51 pm

Hello

Here is a British (Indian marked) Pattern-1903 Bayonet and Scabbard.

This Pattern-1903 Bayonet was converted from a Pattern-1888 Bayonet. This bayonet has British Indian property markings and has been fully blued. From what I have heard, these were converted prior to the Great War, circa 1912-1914. I'm fairly certain that the Scabbard is an Indian Pattern, as it looks nothing like the photos of the original British Pattern-1903 Bayonet Scabbards that I have seen.
Thanks
Mark

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Re: Pattern-1903 Bayonet

Post by TomcatPC » Tue May 24, 2011 9:53 pm

Photo of the bayonet in the scabbard.

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joseyclosey
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Re: Pattern-1903 Bayonet

Post by joseyclosey » Wed May 25, 2011 2:20 am

Hi Mark, do you have a close up shots of the British and Indian markings on the ricasso?

According to Skennerton/Richardson, British & Commonwealth Bayonets, Pattern 1903 converted were ....
1912-13=- 2,307
1913-14= 23,015

A large amount of these converted bayonets were sold in the USA in the early/mid 80's.

The scabbard is possibly a converted 07 Pattern?

Joe
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Re: Pattern-1903 Bayonet

Post by TomcatPC » Wed May 25, 2011 7:32 pm

If this turns out all right, here are the British-Indian Property markings, bend test X, etc.

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Re: Pattern-1903 Bayonet

Post by TomcatPC » Wed May 25, 2011 7:35 pm

If this can be read, it barely shows the original 1897 date from this bayonet's years as a Pattern-1888 Bayonet.

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Re: Pattern-1903 Bayonet

Post by TomcatPC » Wed May 25, 2011 7:37 pm

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Woftam
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Re: Pattern-1903 Bayonet

Post by Woftam » Wed May 25, 2011 7:58 pm

My P03 has the same scabbard. To me, because of the metal end piece, they look like a P07 conversion. My scabbard is marked W&S followed by something that could be a P or an F or a B.
The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it.
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Re: Pattern-1903 Bayonet

Post by TomcatPC » Wed May 25, 2011 9:06 pm

The scabbard looks similar to the Pattern-1907, which looks similar to the Pattern-1888 Scabbard (don't have photo to post). But the Pattern-1907 Bayonet Scabbard is more narrow to fit the slimmer blade. A Pattern-1888/1903 Bayonet will not fit into a Pattern-1907 Scabbard, I have tried it. Also, the Pattern-1907 and Pattern-1888 Scabbards have a stud to fit into a bayonet frog, where the Pattern-1903 Scabbards have an integral frog stitched directly to the scabbard. My scabbard is also marked W&S or F/P/B. My gut reaction is that these scabbards were made specifically for the Pattern-1888/1903 Bayonets.
I hope that made sense?, I'm just going by what I have heard, and very well could be wrong.
Cheers
Mark
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Re: Pattern-1903 Bayonet

Post by TomcatPC » Wed May 25, 2011 9:13 pm

If this works out, on the India page, there is a Pattern-1903 listed with the same scabbard, which is listed as a "Indian Pattern". Also there are some good photos of the Pattern-1888 Bayonet Scabbard (which to me, looks like a shorter and wider pattern-1907 Scabbard). Anyway, this page can tell you more about the Pattern-1903 Bayonet and Scabbards than I can, a good site to get lost in and just look at. Hope this helps.
Mark

http://www.old-smithy.info/
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Woftam
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Re: Pattern-1903 Bayonet

Post by Woftam » Thu May 26, 2011 12:33 am

I don't have any direct information either and, as you are, am going by what I see and what I have read.
India is famous for not wasting anything and recycling endlessly.
Having had a good look at a P'8, P03 & P07 side by side I observe the following -
The P88 has a similar square mouthed throat to the P03 with the exception of the frog stud but that would be easily ground off.
The P88 is much more slender and tapered than either the P03 or P07. The metal tip is much narrower as well.
The (Indian ?) P03 throat is more similar dimensionally to the P88 than the P07. The metal type of the P03 is very similar to the P07 tip.
The scabbard body is quite chunky on the P03 and seems to have been shaved or heavily tapered to fit the tip. It also thickens appreciably in profile towards the tip.
The P07 scabbard body is slightly (only a couple of mm) narrower than the P03. While it tapers at the end there is enough length in the body to remove the taper and still have enough length for a P03.
While the tip on both the P88 & P07 are a neat slip on fit the P03 scabbard body seems to have been jammed into the tip with no finesse at all.
To me it doesn't look like a production piece compared to the P88 & P07 scabbards but rather an adaption.
The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it.
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