Since the WWI threads are really active. A look at the weapons

This is the forum for general Milsurp gun topics that don't fit some place else.

Moderator: Niner

User avatar
Niner
Site Admin
Posts: 9837
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 1:00 pm
Location: Lower Alabama

Re: Since the WWI threads are really active. A look at the weapons

Post by Niner » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:27 am

The Turks were shooting 8mm Mausers with the same version of 8mm ammo as the Germans. They had bought them on contract long before the war began so the Germans weren't subsidizing them. The Turk rifles in use came in different configurations. The 1893 model I own has a shorter bolt and is cock on closing in design. The 1903 has a longer bolt and is cock on opening. Without close examination they look the same. They have internal magazines and are very much the counterpart of the German issue rifle ...except for having a conventional flat sight instead of the roller coaster German version.

These earlier Turk Mausers, as opposed to those made in the 30's, had a noticable v indentation on the bolt entry side of the rifle ring. Made for an easier load of what must have been slightly longer overall length caused by a longer bullet that was eventually reduced.
Attachments
pair.jpg
sight.jpg
two oldest loading notch.jpg
bolts.jpg
User avatar
ArchFluffy
Moderator
Posts: 282
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:19 am

Re: Since the WWI threads are really active. A look at the weapons

Post by ArchFluffy » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:17 pm

This thread is great!

-ArchFluffy
User avatar
Niner
Site Admin
Posts: 9837
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 1:00 pm
Location: Lower Alabama

Re: Since the WWI threads are really active. A look at the weapons

Post by Niner » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:11 pm

The Enfield entered the war with a cutoff to save ammo and ended without it. It also started the war with a rod "Mills Bomb" grenade launcher and finished up with a cup grenade launcher that would launch a grenade about 200 yards. The rod version damaged the rifling in the barrel and didn't have a predictable a distance. I'm showing a 1904 Enfield #1 MkIII with the cutoff and a 1914 model made as a wire wrap mills bomb launcher and without the cutoff.

http://inert-ord.net/brit/mills/pg3.html#m
Attachments
soldier.jpg
soldier.jpg (25.09 KiB) Viewed 9984 times
two enfields.jpg
with cup.jpg
cutoff open.jpg
cutoff used.jpg
outside no cutoff.jpg
inside no cutoff.jpg
User avatar
DuncaninFrance
Global Moderator Sponsor 2011-2017
Posts: 9943
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:08 pm
Location: S.W.France
Contact:

Re: Since the WWI threads are really active. A look at the weapons

Post by DuncaninFrance » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:09 pm

Actually, by the start of WWI the cut off was being used as a Safety Catch and not as a single round system.
I was not aware of this until I watched this video.

I highly recommend ALL the videos posted by Rob - britishmuzzleloaders - he is a great bloke and his presentations are superb.

He is a member on http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/ as I am............. :GBR:
Duncan

What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? -- W.C. Fields
"Many of those who enjoy freedom know little of its price."
You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something.

http://www.twgpp.org
http://www.andrewsinfrance.co.uk
User avatar
Niner
Site Admin
Posts: 9837
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 1:00 pm
Location: Lower Alabama

Re: Since the WWI threads are really active. A look at the weapons

Post by Niner » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:43 pm

Looks like the elimination of the magazine cut off came about in the updated MKIII* in 1916. Earlier versions with the slot were in some cases FTR'd to remove the cut off and left the slot. See Straton SMLE (No. 1) Rifles Mke 1 and Mk III.

I suspect the cut off when open for the magazine hung on things. Can you imagine ''going over the top" and banging the thing closed and then start shooting only to find a follow up shot was blocked by the damn thing closing off the magazine? Of course the whole single shot idea came down from the previous century when commanders were afraid of soldiers being wasteful of ammo and at the same time thought that it made the soldier take better aim.....also if a soldier from a defensive position needed to take occasional harassing pot shots he could get up and "charge" with a full magazine or have a full magazine if the enemy charged. Resupply on the battlefield was more difficult before trench warfare. After all, ammo supply trains didn't have to search for the troops. The firing line only moved a few hundred yards back and forth from one month to the next. And with the stripper clip it was as quick to reload as to move the single shot cut off back. :shock:
User avatar
Niner
Site Admin
Posts: 9837
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 1:00 pm
Location: Lower Alabama

Re: Since the WWI threads are really active. A look at the weapons

Post by Niner » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:55 pm

Two handguns. One is on the scrap heap of time and taken seriously only as a collectible curiosity. One is still being made, desired, and sold today. One is a 1895 Nagant that fires an odd and obsolete round and the other is a US M1911 firing a 45 caliber acp round still popular today. The Nagant was a wheel gun with no safety and slow loading side gate. The M1911 had a grip safety and a half cock safety and could be carried safely with a round in the chamber. It used a detachable magazine and you could carry more than one loaded magazine. The Nagant was double action and the Colt had to be brought to full cock on the first round. The 1911 fired a bigger man stopping round and seemed far more accurate to most shooters.
Attachments
both guns.jpg
nagant.jpg
safety.jpg
half.jpg
full.jpg
User avatar
Niner Delta
Global Moderator Sponsor 2011-2017
Posts: 4204
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:51 pm
Location: Sequim, WA

Re: Since the WWI threads are really active. A look at the weapons

Post by Niner Delta » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:48 pm

I have a 1914 Nagant pistol and it is truly an odd duck. Besides what Robert mentioned, they are
a 7 round pistol, and when the hammer goes back, the cylinder moves forward and seals around the
rear of the barrel. The bullet is entirely inside the brass case. It's one of the few revolvers that a silencer
actually works on. There are those that say they were used by Soviet secret police to do quiet executions.
Surplus ammo works well, but the modern ammo is very weak, like shooting a .22 pistol......... almost.
Also have a .45 auto but it isn't a real one, a Llama Spanish wannabe, I can't afford a real one..... :(
Photo shows a surplus and a modern round.


.
Attachments
1895-1.jpg
:USA:

Peace is that brief, quiet moment in history.......... when everybody stands around reloading.
User avatar
deadin
Site Sponsor 2016
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:13 am
Location: Ocean Shores, WA

Re: Since the WWI threads are really active. A look at the weapons

Post by deadin » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:06 pm

I understand that this one stayed in service until the end of WW2.

Dutch Model 1873 (New Model)

Image
PeterN2
Moderator
Posts: 917
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:02 pm
Location: Yorkshire, England

Re: Since the WWI threads are really active. A look at the weapons

Post by PeterN2 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:45 pm

This is my 1918 dated Mark VI .455 Webley that was in service in WW1.

Image
Image

Also I have a Colt New Service from WW1, also in .455.

Image
Image

They are both in full working order, but I am allowed to hold as collectors items only and not to be fired.

Regards
Peter.
User avatar
DuncaninFrance
Global Moderator Sponsor 2011-2017
Posts: 9943
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:08 pm
Location: S.W.France
Contact:

Re: Since the WWI threads are really active. A look at the weapons

Post by DuncaninFrance » Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:44 pm

Very very nice Peter, must be a real bummer not being able to shoot them, though :pirate:
Duncan

What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? -- W.C. Fields
"Many of those who enjoy freedom know little of its price."
You can't fix Stupid, but you can occasionally head it off before it hurts something.

http://www.twgpp.org
http://www.andrewsinfrance.co.uk
Post Reply