ADAMS REVOLVER QUESTION.

[DuncaninFrance]

This is a transcription of 2 letters I have received from my friend Bill Graham which take this a little further. I am now hoping that Bill and Per will be able to converse directly on the matter.

Wed 10th November 2010.
Thank you for your letter and enclosures . The contributions by Per are particularly intriguing. He too has a very unusual calibre Adams (Taylorson only listed two) so now we know of two more. It would be nice to have details of serial no. and makers name if not Adams.
Even more important is that the same 10bore size discrepancy occurs in his pistol also. Is this a feature of the 90bore pistols only (as seems probable) and if so, WHY?
This brings us back to the original question which you will find in the original article.
I wonder if Per could be persuaded to give FULL details of his pistol so that we could get it reported in the Black Powder newsletter.
Bill.
ps. We especially need to know if his cylinder is parallel bored (like mine) or tapered like almost all other muzzle loading pistols.

Thursday 11th November 2010.
Having posted a reply to you this morning I returned home and logged on to site where I read more from you and Per.
The debate seems to have strayed over into the question of 'chainfires' which would have been a concern to Adams with his lose fitting loads. His rather clumsy solution was of course the thumb tight wad on a spigot.
What is very important (to me) is that another (very rare?) 90bore Adams should have this extreme (10bore size) discrepancy whilst the common 32, 54 and 120 evidently have the more reasonable 2bore difference which Adams intended.
What other features do our two 90bores have in common? Can Per possibly report on his chamber bores? Are the bores tapered (in common with most muzzle loading revolvers) or are they uncommonly parallel like mine? Was Per's pistol made by Tranter (like mine)?
Per mentions cylinder bore tapers and asks for info. I am sure he will find the enclosed data interesting.



a) The 90bore Adams in indeed odd.
b) The Beaumont Adams bore reverted to the normal taper.
c) The dimensional precision of the colt was noticeable
Sorry I am not a computer man (maybe with my disabled hand I should be !) but considering our shared interest and experience with the 90bore Adams do you think he may care to communicate directly with a view to possibly providing information for a follow up article in 'Black Powder?
Again all the best, Bill.

[Niner]

The image of the page was too much for my computer, Duncan, so I've attached it for those of us with a problem seeing extra large images....... as remarked about before somewhere. This attachment can be clicked on to produce a larger, but full, image.

I like that he mentioned the standard black powder pistol tapored design rather than parallel design of the loading chambers. That is very much at the center of the question.

[Per]

Unfortunately, I am unable at this time to accurately measure the chambers of my revolver (that is, I am still trying to find time to do this). However, a .390 round ball (being a true 80-bore), needs to be pushed with a ramrod down the cylinder, presenting some resistance. Also from this experience, I am positive that the cylinder walls are, indeed, parallel, and not tapered.

At the same time, a .375 round ball will fill the bore nicely, and this corresponds well with recovered bullets at the firing range as well, suggesting that the barrel is 90-bore. The question is then - should this revolver be characterized as a 90-bore or an 80-bore revolver?

For reference: My revolver is an 1851 Adams, s/n 9477R, with a first style frame and no rammer. The revolver is retailed by Deane, Adams, & Deane, it is scroll engraved, and named on the top right flat on the barrel. Unfortunately, it did not come with a case, so, if possible, I would greatly appreciate any information on both the size and shape of the bullets for this revolver - so that I may make a correct mould for it.

Therefore, trying to complete the table to the best of my knowledge with the data from my Adams:
(Duncan and Bill, you are welcome to use this information in your further research. I would, however, greatly appreciate hearing about your further findings).

PISTOL: 90 bore Adams (1851), s/n: 9477R
RAMMER: None
CYL MAX: .388 (est)
CYL MIN: .388 (est)
LENGTH: Not measured. Max charge is: 17 grs FFFg + .1" wad + .390 round ball.

An interesting experience (an, in hindsight, probably not just a little dangerous) at the shooting range was finding that a .390 bullet needed a full charge (~17 grs) in order to enter the bore. Anything less resulted in the bullet being stuck in the forcing cone. Now, slightly older and very much wiser, I have drilled a spigot shape to a Lee .375 mould in order to make correct bullets, with a much lower charge being required. The accuracy does, however, still leave much to be desired - probably to a great extent a matter of finding the right load, as both cylinder and barrel is in excellent condition.

As additional information on "odd-caliber" Adams; My internet searches the last couple of years have resulted in identifying three other 80 bore revolvers (except mine), all in roughly the same serial number range (9500R - 10500R), as well as two similar revolvers specified as 90-bore in the same range (although these may possibly be of the same caliber, cf. our previous discussions). All of these are in addition to the revolvers mentioned by Taylorson in his books. Totally, we should then be at a total of about 7 or 8 Adams 1851 revolvers in about 80 bore - all of which, I believe, from roughly the same serial number range, being manufactured from late 1853 and early 1854.

I hope that this information may be of some interest to you.

Best regards,
Per

[Per]

While writing the last post, I did not have the revolver at hand. However, I have at this time the revolver in front of me, and may complete the data collection. I will mailthis to Bill directly as well, I just though that this might be interesting for others as well;

I forgot to mention last time that my Adams is indeed made by Tranter as well (W.T. s/n is 7302). The cylinder length (actually, the internal chamber length) is 1", with an overall cylinder length of 1.5" (accurately measured to within the 1/32" range of my caliper).

Last week also provided just enough time for a short trip to the shooting range. With a more reasonable charge (tried between 10 and 14 grs), I managed to see the Adams landing the balls much closer - about 4" at 25 meters this time. Since it has been some time since I was at the range myself, I guess there is still room for personal improvements, though; although the trigger pull of the Adams is fairly light and extremely smooth, it is also incredibly long when being somewhat out of practice and trying to shoot accurately...

Best regards,
- Per

[DuncaninFrance]

Further information now to hand from my friend bill Graham

[DuncaninFrance]

Going to have to work on this in sections I think so it can be read..................