Milsurp After Hours

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here is a story by pictures the rifle in all these pictires is the same rifle 1920 LITHGOW. top to bottom D^D 1.my wife shooting her uncles rifle , the uncle (2006) .markings on wrist band.markings on stock. ok 1920 lithgow F.T.R 10/39 issued to wifes uncle 1940 WW2.this rifle has D^D 1 markings . no M.D markings.it also has the serial number on butt.

I can't see enough of the receiver ring in your picture----but does it look like this one, with a number such as this?

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In case there is any confusion---"32117" is not the rifle's serial number, the serial number is "K 982" and is below the range of the lens in this shot.

"32117" would seem to be the inventory number of this rifle in Military District 1 and here are the two numbers repeated on the right side of the buttstock. "1" over "D^D" over "32117". Looks a little like the "1" has been struck-through, but it looks like a random ding, close-up.

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-----krinko

yes it is the same as that , see the number stamped on you butt 32117, well on the one i have that number is 58015. well this is the serial number for the rifle A58015, and if you look at the top of the butt those two sets of numbers are when it was F'T'Red . on yours it looks like 6.40. on mine it is 10. 39.D^D means defence department, commonweath of australia, from 1920s.is the rifle in the picture a lithgow?if it is the number on the butt and rec should be the serial number . what is the number on the bolt handle and on the barrel of this rifle under the rear handguard?and look under the leaf site and tell me what is marked on that.it also should be 32117. if it was made from 1918 to early 1922 should have the letter A before it if late 1922 to early 1941 should have letter B before the serial number, litghow letter prefix only when up to F in 1953. do not under stand serial number K 982 . If it was from the 1st military district would be marked . 1st M.D . not D^D with 1 above it . like i said the rifle i had was my wifes uncles , made in 1920 at lithgow and F.T.Red in oct 1939 . then issued to him in 1940. thats what he told me he got it1940.http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/w ... ERT002.jpg

The serial number---

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A little higher up, the inventory number and "5"---

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The inventory number and "5" on the buttstock---

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Of the ten Lithgows I currently hold, dated 1915, 1920, 1921, 1927, 1936, 1941(x2), 1942, 1944 and 1945, only one has a serial number on the butt---a 1941/42, where the number is stamped along the bottom of the butt, between the swivel and the grip.

I believe a Lithgow with the serial number on the butt is kind of an anomaly.

I'm linking this thread to Gunboards, where there are tons of bored Australians looking for an argument---let's see if I can get them stirred up.

-----krinko

See the thread "Australia 1, 2, 3" a little lower down on this Forum for photos of all three of the Enfield SMLEs that I have with "D^D" marks etc.

-----krinko

sounds good to me can you post the gunboards address so i can see what they say .

as you can see from these pictures the serial number A58015 . is marked on the butt/ bolt/rec and barrel as well as under the site.

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and D^D 1 is marked on the butt and rec

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if your 1920 lithgow has all oringal parts all the numbers should be the same like mine. so if the butt is the oringnal one your serial number on bolt/ rec/ barrel and under the site should 32117 or A32117.what are the numbers on your bolt/rec/barrel and under the site?

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.a ... _ID=163696

We seem to have a slow beginning to the Australian Participation Program, but at least Far Canal has got his in.

Warner,

Serial numbers are not the issue---but I will list them anyway.

Rifle 1: 1916 Enfield, serial number-K 982, inventory number-32117, district number-1.

Rifle 2: 1917 Enfield, serial number-W 17, inventory number-119225, district number-2.

Rifle 3: 1915 Enfield, serial number-B 3948, inventory number-108553, district number-3.

Rifle 4: 1920 Lithgow, serial number-A 85529, inventory number-17801, district number-5.

Three of these are British made, sent to Oz 1919-1920 to replace Lithgows lost in the mud of the Western front. Only one is a Lithgow.

There is only one feature that they have in common----all are marked in a fashion similar to the earlier Military District system, but without the "M.D." after the district number.

None of these has a serial number that is used as the inventory number----your 1920 rifle is the exception to a very widely held rule! Even the 1915 Lithgow I have, serial number 29506, carries a "3 M.D." inventory number of 34641 and that's the normal pattern.

I will say it again: the fact that your inventory number matches your serial number is highly unusual-----remarkable, even.

-----krinko

Think I'll throw in my two cents worth. Nothing earth shattering just a few observations, some speculation and a couple of questions.

Having perused The Broad Arrow & The Lee Enfield Story I can't find mention of single digits and D^D representing Australian Military Districts. Both specifically refer to digit plus MD (eg 3MD). Not saying it didn't work that way but just that it doesn't get a mention in either publication.

Also where class of arm (ie First class etc) gets a mention the marking is on the butt associated with the Mark of the firearm.

With regard to the four weapons put up as examples they are all from around the 1919-1920 era aren't they ? Could this mean some enterprising digger, suddenly faced with tens of thousands of rifles arriving from the UK as replacements for weapons sent to the UK in 1914, had the bright idea of dropping the MD from 2MD D^D and reducing his workload by a third ?

With regard to the "exception to the very widely held rule" I recall a discussion on Gunboards a couple of years back where I was informed that in certain states (Qld springs to mind) it was common practice to use the serial number as the rack number. Unfortunately Gunboards search function isn't working so I can't locate that particular exchange.

Warner,

How did your uncle manage to retain the rifle he was issued ? Sticky fingers ? Creative accounting ? Would be a very unusual occurence. Also does your rifle have the initials WM in the centre of the crossed rifles on the butt ?