Milsurp After Hours

While vacationing in Florida, I had a chance encounter with an uncommon find. Therefore, I purchased it<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b">; There is still some grease on it, but less than when I started<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b">;


http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL554/46 ... 973519.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END-->


Italian M1870/87 Vetterli-Vitali 10.4x47R





It's been difficult finding one of these in nice shape...a great number were converted to 6.5 Carcano, and redesignated as the M70/87/15...which is basically less than safe to shoot due to the higher pressures involved. I've found that there are an equal amount of original rifles that have simply rusted away, or have cracked/damaged stocks.


Here are some things that differ between Swiss and Italian Vettys, and some things that are similar...





<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Those neat little keys...</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->


http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL554/46 ... 128369.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END-->


Italian Vetterli's have the Swiss-style bolt retaining key, but it is placed at an angle that is roughly the same as the closed bolt handle. This is so it will catch the back of the extractor, and hold the bolt in place.


The stock key was omitted on this model, as it has the more conventional one piece furniture, held on by receiver screws and barrel bands.


The key pictured is pushed out as far as it will go, and the bolt will simply slide out.





<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>A tale of 2 bolts...</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->


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A picture comparing a model 1878 bolt (left), and the Italian model. The most obvious difference is that the Italians preferred centerfire...which makes it modern user-friendly<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">; From the locking lugs back, the design remains basically the same.





<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Things get crazy in the breech...</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->


http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL554/46 ... 128327.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END-->


A look inside of the breech area, with the bolt fully to the rear. The knurled knob is part of a ring that acts as a magazine cut-off, and it is now disengaged.


http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL554/46 ... 128314.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END-->


Here is the cut-off switch in the "on" position. The extended part of the ring now showing effectively blocks any cartridge rims below in the magazine, allowing single shot fire only.





<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Batmobile, or Chevy Biscayne?</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->


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The bolt support rail helps add to the unique silhouette of this rifle. Originally the M1870, a single shot, had no problems with cartridge feeding, obviously. When using an advanced for its time vertical feed magazine, the Italians learned that jams could occur frequently, mostly due to improper bolt alignment. The support rail helps by guiding the striker through a notch....this simply helps the bolt stay straight.





<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Cartouche time...</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->


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A shot of the stamp on the right buttstock, showing the maker's mark and serial number. Within the crest, there is a date of 1897. (with a barrel date of 1880, I assume this is a replacement stock)





<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>It's a Beaum.....no</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->


http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL554/46 ... 128241.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END-->


Now here's something that you Beaumont fans can relate with (AJ). When M1870 rifles were updated in 1887 (almost all were), they received the Vitali box magazine, which holds 4 rounds. Also, a reinforcement plate was added to support the surrounding wood.


The magazine uses a Mannlicher-style charger, which I unfortunately do not have at the moment.


The bottom view:


http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL554/46 ... 128210.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END-->





<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>It's just....really big...</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->


http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL554/46 ... 128190.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END-->


This is the somewhat massive, in my opinion, rear sight. Sight graduations are 275m to 1800m.


http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL554/46 ... 128172.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END-->


The rear sight is adjusted by depressing a button on the left side of the base, releasing the spring tension. A very secure system.





<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Barrel markings...</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->


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A view of the left side of the chamber area on the barrel shows the factory stamp, Brescia, and a date of 1880.





<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The business end...</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->


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The M1870/87 has a side mounted bayonet lug, just like the M78/81 series. However, it is on the barrel, instead of the nosecap.





<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>It's on there pretty good...</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->


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How many other rifles have 3 buttplate screws? Excessive? <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b">;





<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Case hardening...</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->


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Just like the Swiss M1869/71, the Italians used case hardening on the receivers of these rifles. It makes for a nice contrast between receiver and barrel, I think.





Phil




<p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:red;font-family:helvetica;">+</span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://pub4.ezboard.com/fmilsurpafterhoursfrm33" target="top">After Hours Swiss Forum</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:red;font-family:helvetica;">+</span><!--EZCODE FONT END-->


http://volcano.photobucket.com/albums/0 ... ce2da0.PNG" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p089.ezboard.com/bmilsurpafterho ... antfoam</A> at: 8/12/04 3:53 pm

</i>

That's a really well done presentation. I had never really "seen" a Vetterli before. Glad you took the time to post the pictures and information.

<p>

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/ ... <!--EZCODE IMAGE END-->





These are the chargers for the Italian Vetterli rifles packed by six in a tinned case.


The charger is put in from above and the cartridges are stripped from it and held in the magazine when pulled back out with the help of the little cord.





The Mannlicher chargers were for the later 6.5 and 7.35 Carcano rifles that had a Mannlicher action and a magazine that had an opening in the bottom to drop out the empty charger after the last shot had been fired.





Thanks,


Guisan.;

<p>

Maybe that "Manufacturer's stamp" you show is better described as a repair (RIPARAZ) stamp?





The one on my rifle looks like this:





http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v92/f ... estamp.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END-->





Probably it was manufactured in 1886 (date on the barrel) and modified in 1889 (date on the stock). Anyway, that would be my guess.





Frog

<p>

Thanks for the charger pictures, Guisan<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">; I like the novelty of the "pull the string to remove" idea<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :smokin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smokin.gif ALT=":smokin">;





Perhaps it is a repair stamp, Frog. I see GENOVA on one side of the shield, and the other part is stamped to lightly to say.

<p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:red;font-family:helvetica;">+</span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://pub4.ezboard.com/fmilsurpafterhoursfrm33" target="top">After Hours Swiss Forum</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:red;font-family:helvetica;">+</span><!--EZCODE FONT END-->


http://volcano.photobucket.com/albums/0 ... ce2da0.PNG" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END-->

Another foreign rifle on the Swiss forum. Hmmm?





Phil, I have two of the M1870/87/15 Italian Vetterli's and I have shot both of them. You need to use a reduced load, but they shoot OK for what they were designed for - just in case the gomers get way back in the rear area "Oh Shit" rifles for the REMFs. They will hit the broad side of a barn at 50 yards.





Your 1870/87 is really a nice looking specimen. I have only seen one of them lately in my area, but it was not nearly as nice, though it might clean up some.





aj




<p>

This is the best place I could find for an Italian rifle with Swiss features<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b">;


It's good to know that you've shot a couple 6.5 Vettys and everything turned out ok. I'm sure it is perfectly fine to shoot them with a reduced load.....but the big bores have a special appeal to me<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :hat --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat">;


Phil

<p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:red;font-family:helvetica;">+</span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://pub4.ezboard.com/fmilsurpafterhoursfrm33" target="top">After Hours Swiss Forum</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:red;font-family:helvetica;">+</span><!--EZCODE FONT END-->


http://volcano.photobucket.com/albums/0 ... ce2da0.PNG" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END-->

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-8/8 ... etcopy.JPG" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END-->





i am still working on a good load for her, but i like this ol swiss gal just as much as the "new" ones<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :sw --><img src=http://x9eralpha.home.comcast.net/Swiss.gif ALT=":sw">;

<p>

That's a nice looking sporter you've got there...thanks for sharing, and good luck with your loads<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">;


Phil

<p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:red;font-family:helvetica;">+</span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://pub4.ezboard.com/fmilsurpafterhoursfrm33" target="top">After Hours Swiss Forum</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:red;font-family:helvetica;">+</span><!--EZCODE FONT END-->


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