Milsurp After Hours

I'm putting 72 gns of TPPH into a Bertram brass .577 Snider case under an RCBS .578" as cast Minnie bullet.

The bullet is just kiss touching the powder well seated with the case just past the shoulder.

There is no powder compression at all, does it need any filler or wad to take up any slack space?

Case length is 1.992".

Any experinece of loading for this in BP gladly sought.

Hi Adam,

I've spent the whole weekend loading 40 rounds for my Martini-Henry (the one you saw when we had that pint together in the Artists' Rifles at Bisley last May).

I spent Saturday casting and paper patching and today I've been case-prepping,lubing and loading.

My problem was that Coyoté's .577/450 brass will take 115 grains of BP (through a drop tube) to the top of the shoulder and, as I was a little shy of that load against my person, I e-mailed him for a solution.

The principle with BP cartridges (so far as I understand it anyway) is that there should be no air gaps in the case and that there should be light compression but no crushing of the powder. 85 grains of today's BP is not as powerful as the same weight of Victorian powder so a slight bump up of the load is probably desirable both for the Martini-Henry and for the Snider.

Coyoté's advice was to put 85 grains in the case and then top up to the base of the neck with 28 grains of a mixture of 50:50 BP and cream of wheat (semolina in the UK). This ensures that when the card wad - grease cookie - card wad sandwich is installed the bullet can be inserted using only thumb pressure to seat it to a prescribed depth with no air spaces. The effective charge should be 99 grains of powder (gulp!)

The same method should work for the Snider. You could experiment by trickling in 70 grains of powder and then adding a few grains of BP/COW mix until you achieve the right degree of compression with the correct COL. According to Coyoté, the semolina is instantly vaporised as it is mixed with the powder and does not simply lie on top to form a potential plug.

It's just a suggestion as I've yet to fire my old boomer and I may have got it completely wrong. 70 grains in my Enfield 2-band gives quite a wallop so 100 grains in the M-H should be "interesting" to say the least.

I'll post a report next weekend (if I can still use my right shoulder that is!)

Brian

The LoC says that a grain of "carded wool" was used between bullet and propellant.

Some research suggests that carded wool is the fleece after it's been washed.

Adam, let me have your address and I will send you a handfull of carded wool, I got the lady in the local wool shop to get me a carrier bag full for a couple of quid.

Have a look at this posting on my web site forum for some more info on loading the Snider: Understanding & loading the L.o.C. Snider.

David

For what it's worth, firing 100 grains of some modern BPs in the MH rifle is like firing an original rifle round in the carbine...OK in the heat of battle but not recommended on the range

This comes from a memory that is 50 years old but still fresh.

From the days when "Here have a shot out of this" didn't ring any warning bells...

Eoin.

And that one is a sporterized Arty carbine, 5-groove 1:48 twist. The slow twisters are harder to load for...

1st the bullet: Most Snider will need a bullet at least .585, preferably .590 to shoot well - don't rely on bump-up,even with a Minie, it just won't happen (unless you use a base plug). A fast-twister will shoot well with 500+ grain conicals, al 3-groover will need lighter bullets or round balls. I personally prefer solid-base bullets, much more reliabe (and MUCH easier to cast well)

Powder: I prefer Fg here, in loads ranging from 70 to 85+ grs. With a Minie, nothing between bullet and powder (wll, maybe try a bit of carded wool, kapok or so...) Usually, the more powder, the better it shoots. With a solid-base, I did both - nothing, just a thin paper disk or even a 1cm felt wad. No real difference in accuracy. I always used LRM primers, BTW.

Case: I am still using NDFS cases, and FL size after each shot (anneal too, BTW). Case length is critical - make a chamber cast, and determine the max useable case length, trim the cases to suit. Actual case length is less important, but a case too long will a) be difficult to chamber, and b)lose any semblance of accuracy. Also, make sure you have good neck tension, if you like with the bullet touching the rifling. I don't, and leave the bullet a bit off: there is no camming force whatsoever to seat the bullet - nothing more frustrating than not being able to close the action on all rounds at the range...

Also, check and correct the bedding of the rifle, don't put too much tension on the barrel bands or tang screw (not too loose either, or the bands will start walking forward...)

Have fun with the ol'girl - they do require a bit of work to get good accuracy from, but in my experience (limited to the 5-groover, 1:48 twist) they are less catankerous than some claim. of course, the is REALLY big bore shooting, quite an experience indeed!

I don't have a Snider, but I do shoot a Smith using nylon cartridge tubes and always fill with 7cc of cream of wheat on top of the black powder (fffg)to fill the space and to keep the bullet from seating too deeply.

belgmart wrote:Also, check and correct the bedding of the rifle, don't put too much tension on the barrel bands or tang screw (not too loose either, or the bands will start walking forward...)

Regarding the bedding, have a look at the following article on bedding Enfield rifles.

David

I was thinking of referring to that article - but I was still looking for it!

Thanks every one, I went to those articles first David.

I'm going to go the Minnie/wool route as per the original, does anyone know the primer flash hole diameter of the original case?

I would like to get a feel for how much compression there was in the original loads as well, any one ever opened or seen an original opened.

I would like to go at first with the Minnie bullet and exhaust those possibilties before moving onto the flat base, any mould suggestions for a large diameter FB bullet for the Snider.

I have two examples to play with, one a three band MK111 BSA three groove and the other a Mk11 2 band 5 groove.

Hope to get a chance at the weekend to take the chamber casts. Will post the numbers when I do.