Found this book in my local library, I gather it was a companion piece to
a British TV program-did any of you in the UK ever see it?
. The one story I remember clearly from it was of a "workshop" unit-maintenance company as we would day in the US-in the Summer of 1940.
With the threat of German Invasion imminent, these troops were forced to
hand over their rifles, and the lieutenant in charge was forced to hand over his revolver. When he asked how his men were supposed to defend themselves if the Germans appeared, he was told to have them use their
wrenches-oops, excuse me, spanners.
"If Britain had fallen"
Moderator: Niner
There seems to be a big interest in "what ifs" of all sorts if my veiwing of bookshops is any indicator.
Can't help you with this particular one as I got rid of my TV 15 years ago and I've never felt the need to waste any more of my life on one again.
One of my favourite "what if" writers was J M Barrie.
Can't help you with this particular one as I got rid of my TV 15 years ago and I've never felt the need to waste any more of my life on one again.
One of my favourite "what if" writers was J M Barrie.
There was a TV program a year or so ago regarding the fall of Britain to the Nazis'. It was really showing the use and deployment of the "special units" of the home guard that were trained for this eventuality. It showed their training equipment and deployment for fighting back at the enemy. The conclusion from the program was that although the idea was grand it would have brought severe consequences for small villages being singled out for retribution by the occupying forces.
One of the interesting things was that the special forces were told to "eliminate" anyone who had potential/special knowledge of them, there base of operations etc, which menat bumping off the local policeman etc.
A film you should look for is "Went the Day Well" where a small village is taken over by Nazi's posing as British Troops as a forerunner to invasion. The fact that most of the villagers despatch the "enemy" using various means once their cover is blown is quite astounding since the film was made for general consumption just after the war and it's quite dramatic in the portrayal of their demise for the time. The only film star I can remember in it was Sir Bernard Miles.
One of the interesting things was that the special forces were told to "eliminate" anyone who had potential/special knowledge of them, there base of operations etc, which menat bumping off the local policeman etc.
A film you should look for is "Went the Day Well" where a small village is taken over by Nazi's posing as British Troops as a forerunner to invasion. The fact that most of the villagers despatch the "enemy" using various means once their cover is blown is quite astounding since the film was made for general consumption just after the war and it's quite dramatic in the portrayal of their demise for the time. The only film star I can remember in it was Sir Bernard Miles.
dogbolt,
I think you'll find that "Went the Day Well" actually dates from late in the war rather than early post war. The idea of a Nazi infiltration unit disguised as British forces and of an active 'fifth column" was also used in "The Eagle Has Landed" (although the Germans in WTDW were of the 'brutal' variety, having none of the virtues shown in TEHL).
A film covering a successful invasion of Britain is "It Happened Here" from the mid 1960s - not often seen, (at least, not as often as many) it was critcised for its portrayal of the degree and nature of collaboration and of the resistance. If you get a chance, it's worth watching (even if the plot is a little thin in places) .
It's about time someone made a film version of Len deighton's SSGB.
Tom
I think you'll find that "Went the Day Well" actually dates from late in the war rather than early post war. The idea of a Nazi infiltration unit disguised as British forces and of an active 'fifth column" was also used in "The Eagle Has Landed" (although the Germans in WTDW were of the 'brutal' variety, having none of the virtues shown in TEHL).
A film covering a successful invasion of Britain is "It Happened Here" from the mid 1960s - not often seen, (at least, not as often as many) it was critcised for its portrayal of the degree and nature of collaboration and of the resistance. If you get a chance, it's worth watching (even if the plot is a little thin in places) .
It's about time someone made a film version of Len deighton's SSGB.
Tom
The Truth IS Out There, The lies are in your head. (T. Pratchett - 'Hogfather'))
Tom
Regarding your remarks about collaboration, I was re-watching parts of the sex during the war series shown on one of the digital channels. It seems to make sense that becuase of the fraught situations that people found themselves in that romances at least were created between the opposing forces. This was illustrated by recounts of young women at the time, falling for German prisoners who worked on UK farms during and just after the war. So the thought that collaboration might be more prevalent seems to be logical.
I'll look out for the film you mentioned, I hadn't heard of it. I did think of The Eagle has Landed, but I thought Went the Day Well a better film for the story and portayal, than Michael (your only supposed to blow the bloody doors off) Caine as the German Captain.
Regarding your remarks about collaboration, I was re-watching parts of the sex during the war series shown on one of the digital channels. It seems to make sense that becuase of the fraught situations that people found themselves in that romances at least were created between the opposing forces. This was illustrated by recounts of young women at the time, falling for German prisoners who worked on UK farms during and just after the war. So the thought that collaboration might be more prevalent seems to be logical.
I'll look out for the film you mentioned, I hadn't heard of it. I did think of The Eagle has Landed, but I thought Went the Day Well a better film for the story and portayal, than Michael (your only supposed to blow the bloody doors off) Caine as the German Captain.
Dogbolt,
To gain some idea of the degree of collaboration that might have taken place, had Britain been invaded, one only really has to look to the Channel Islands*, and then remove the hope of liberation as I sincerely doubt that, in the event of the loss of Britain, the (1940s) US would have the military ability** to launch an effective war across the bredth of the Atlantic.
Of films:
I can see your point about the comparative merits of "Went the Day Well?" and "The Eagle Has Landed", my only point is that TEHL has a more complete story than WTDW and doesn't carry all the emotional baggage of the earlier film.
In TEHL we see the planning, insertion, detection, desructuction of the force and the aftermath.
In WTDW the enemy just 'appears' (there is no explaination of how it arrived here), the detection and destruction is covered, with no aftermath.
That said, "Went the Day Well?", despite its 'cardboard' Nazis, does have its advantages over the later film, the cntemporary fear of a 'fifth column', the absence of a combat ready division sitting on the doorstep of the target area to provide a convenient solution to the problem and the absence of Messrs Caine, Hagman (as a cartoon Divisional Cdr) and Sutherland as the Canadian IRA man (I'm sorry, he strikes me as being as Irish as Spaghetti).
I believe "It Happened Here is available (possibly in a re-edited version) on tape/DVD (not sure which).
If you get a chance, try to find a copy of SSGB, it's an interesting book (if you like Len Deighton's style), the action takes place in an occupied Britain, some months after the occupation government is in place.
Tom
* Even now there are untold tales, and hidden secrets of the occupation.
* Or, forgive me (in the light of the existance of the likes of Joe Kennedy or a few years later Joe McCarthy) the political will.
To gain some idea of the degree of collaboration that might have taken place, had Britain been invaded, one only really has to look to the Channel Islands*, and then remove the hope of liberation as I sincerely doubt that, in the event of the loss of Britain, the (1940s) US would have the military ability** to launch an effective war across the bredth of the Atlantic.
Of films:
I can see your point about the comparative merits of "Went the Day Well?" and "The Eagle Has Landed", my only point is that TEHL has a more complete story than WTDW and doesn't carry all the emotional baggage of the earlier film.
In TEHL we see the planning, insertion, detection, desructuction of the force and the aftermath.
In WTDW the enemy just 'appears' (there is no explaination of how it arrived here), the detection and destruction is covered, with no aftermath.
That said, "Went the Day Well?", despite its 'cardboard' Nazis, does have its advantages over the later film, the cntemporary fear of a 'fifth column', the absence of a combat ready division sitting on the doorstep of the target area to provide a convenient solution to the problem and the absence of Messrs Caine, Hagman (as a cartoon Divisional Cdr) and Sutherland as the Canadian IRA man (I'm sorry, he strikes me as being as Irish as Spaghetti).
I believe "It Happened Here is available (possibly in a re-edited version) on tape/DVD (not sure which).
If you get a chance, try to find a copy of SSGB, it's an interesting book (if you like Len Deighton's style), the action takes place in an occupied Britain, some months after the occupation government is in place.
Tom
* Even now there are untold tales, and hidden secrets of the occupation.
* Or, forgive me (in the light of the existance of the likes of Joe Kennedy or a few years later Joe McCarthy) the political will.
The Truth IS Out There, The lies are in your head. (T. Pratchett - 'Hogfather'))
I recommend the book "The World Hitler Never Made", an interesting
study of alternative histories, the chapters in which the UK is defeated
and occupied are the most interesting.
My actual point was that I found it interesting that the British were so
short of arms that a rear echelon would be stripped of its weapons despite
the new style of highly mobile fast moving deep penetration warfare that
blurred the distinction between the "front" and "rear" areas.
study of alternative histories, the chapters in which the UK is defeated
and occupied are the most interesting.
My actual point was that I found it interesting that the British were so
short of arms that a rear echelon would be stripped of its weapons despite
the new style of highly mobile fast moving deep penetration warfare that
blurred the distinction between the "front" and "rear" areas.
Went the Day Well
I was just loaned WtDW by a friend and watched it the other night.I quite enjoyed it.
Yes, a bit superficial on plotting,as has been mentioned,but well worth watching.Perhaps as a cautionary tale........?The vipers nurtured at our own breast and all that.
Just for fun you might pick up an alternate history titled "The Moscow Option" by David Downing.It has some interesting scenarios,not all probable,but fun.
John
Yes, a bit superficial on plotting,as has been mentioned,but well worth watching.Perhaps as a cautionary tale........?The vipers nurtured at our own breast and all that.
Just for fun you might pick up an alternate history titled "The Moscow Option" by David Downing.It has some interesting scenarios,not all probable,but fun.
John