Milsurp After Hours

Posted this on Gunboards but figured the members here might like to read it as well.

Sorry for the delay in the report but I have been under the weather as of late and just not felt like getting back on the boards.

A couple of weeks ago I had the chance to head to Europe on a business trip and I decided to stop in for a visit in Finland. I was in Finland a total of 6 days just taking it easy and seeing some friends of mine in the Tampere region. What was an added bonus is that the Tamarms show, which is the largest in Finland, was going on at the same time so I was able to stop by and check the show out.

February is an interesting time for someone from TN to visit Finland as the climate is just a little bit different than what I am used to. I was lucky in some regards as on most days the temperature were only a bit under 0 but there was at least one or two days of -20 with some wind. That takes a bit of getting used to as that is so cold that it just plain hurts when one steps outside. Then again after a few days of it one gets a bit used to it but still it is COLD!!!!!!!!!

My first full day was on Saturday and Lemmy came over to my hotel for a visit. Later in the afternoon I had some meetings with various people in town for the show and had dinner with an interesting character who is a large international seller of artillery and like items. He is based in Germany and has been buying tanks, artillery, and other large ticket items for the past 20 years. He has some interesting stories relating to the “good old days” of military trading. The stories became much more interesting as the vodka flowed a bit, as it seems for some reason that when one is in Finland vodka seems to go down as easy as water.

The show was Sunday only and although I had been to shows in Finland before, I was not sure what to expect of the Tampere show. I had always been told it was the largest in Finland and it is that by a long shot. The show in Turkku is small almost in comparison. Going to Finnish gunshows is a mix of good and bad. Every table has something interesting to look at but in most cases what you see are items that can not be imported to the USA. The machine gun prices in Finland just kill me every time I travel there. It is just amazing to see machine guns and sub machine guns in the $500 range. I noticed a couple of PPSh41’s and at least one very nice PPD40 for sale. A couple of Maxims were also offered for next to nothing. I did notice there has been quite a rise in prices in regards to the Mosin Nagants. I can recall seeing a number of good deals in the past while in Finland but that is just not the case today. Most of what you see there in regards to Mosin prices are close to what you see here at large shows or on the Trader here at Gunboards. Bayonet prices are also overall on par with what is seen here in the USA. I did see some decent scabbards for the M91 *German WW1 metal – but they were just high enough in price to make them not worth my while. I have quite a few of these so there was no need to buy them just for the heck of it. Mosin parts were not there in the numbers as seen in the past at least I should say at least in regards to the M27 28 28-30. It used to be rather easy to find these at Finnish shows but at least at this show the parts were not in large numbers and when I did find them the prices were not cheap. I did not see any good deals on slings either as most slings that I saw were canvas Soviet versions. It is not to say good items were not out there it is just they were not out there in numbers as I have seen in the past. Some unreal cheap deals on Finnish marked handguns but each handgun that I wanted would not have met the points system to be imported. I had hoped to run into more of the Finns on the board but as it turned out I only saw a few. It was nice to meet Bokmal for the first time and I did see at least three more Finnish board members. I hate that I missed Sako, Jormo, Mala, and a few others that I had been in contact with but the show was so large it was hard to locate anyone. JTV and two of his friends also were at the show but somehow we kept missing each other. I did run into Markku Palokangas and was able to spend a few minutes with him as we looked over some of the tables. Overall the show was a lot of fun but it is a bit of a bummer seeing items one would love to have but can not get into the country. If I sound negative I do not mean to as this show is as good as many shows here in the USA in size and scope.

Since I stayed outside of Helsinki the rest of the trip had some new experiences for me. On Monday Lemmy took me to see a few private collections that were just outstanding. I saw without a doubt the most impressive SS collection I have ever encountered. The collection focused on the Finn SS and truly can not be put into words. The scope and scale of the collection makes ones mouth drop. Photos, uniforms, caps, issue gear, guns, paper goods, and the like – I mean just simply scary it was so good. I could not even put a dollar value on it but if sold the owner and the owner’s kids would be set for life.

Lemmy then took me to see another collection that has some great items. There was an early Swedish flintlock that was just a stunner. The other big highlight was an non updated dragoon with original sights and handguard (with the numbers on the side). It was a real pleasure. Lemmy also took me around to some of the more famous spots in the region that dealt with the Finnish Civil War, such as an area were the German forces engaged the Reds in a large battle. There is a large Red mass grave in this region that is still maintained and in good order. As I had never been to some of these areas it was quite educational and interesting. It was a bit cold to wander around so we stayed in the car for the most part. We also stopped by the Artillery Museum and this is a must see while in Finland. This is the third time that I have been there and they have much improved their displays in the past two years. They have added a lot of personal soldier items and photos to their collection which made a great museum even better.

The rest of the trip was more seeing old friends and seeing a bit of the areas around Tampere. I did get the chance to view an outstanding artillery and anti – tank collection on my last full day. I had seen it before but it is such a great collection that it is worth many visits (smile)

As is always the case I had a great time in Finland. Lemmy went out of his way to show me around and I am glad to call him a friend. He is a lucky guy as not only does he have a fine collection he has a great family. His wife always goes out of her way to make me feel welcome and that is appreciated. Lemmy’s kids are also fun to be around. I am pretty sure his son is going to be over 7 feet tall when he is done growing, so I hope that Lemmy is nice to his son while he is growing up.

Ok what did I buy?

Too be honest I did not buy all that much. I picked up some M91 and M91-30 cleaning rods, a couple ammo pouches, some dragoon and button barrel bands, a rather rare manual “Infantry ammunition part II” (I will share more on this later as this is just an outstanding find), a Panzerfaust poster, and a few other odds and ends. Nothing too large but this trip was a bit last minute so I did not have a massive war chest to spent. Note -

I did forget that I also picked up some original Civil Guard targets from the 1930's. They are in outstanding condition and I will post these later in the week. A real highlight of the trip was finding these.

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Thanks for an inside view of something most of us will not likely experience. One question.

Some unreal cheap deals on Finnish marked handguns but each handgun that I wanted would not have met the points system to be imported.

What's the point system about? If they had met the "points system" how difficult would they be to export to the US and could you give us an idea of what it would have cost and what kind of hoops you would have to jump through to do it?

The points system is hard to explain in some regards - Basic way to look at it is that the government has set a point for each feature on a pistol and also set a standard on features that subtracts from the points total. For a pistol to be able to be imported it must meet a certain number of points. For example - A Ruby pistol can not be imported as it does not have enough points. The overall size of the pistol counts against it as does the caliber and lack of safety. Even handguns such as the Berreta M34 or 35 can not be imported as is as the overall size of the pistol keeps it from being imported (barrel length is a factor) Same can be said for Mauser 1911 pistols or like older designs of small size.

Now to import a pistol that meets the points system such as a Luger or the like, it is really not that big of a deal. There is some paperwork but it is not all that much of a hassle. Just use a good importer and they will take care of pretty much everything. I have imported a few Lugers from Finland in the past and it was not a big deal at all.

Thanks. I was just curious.

Any one remember how a Belgian Browning .380acp looked before the 68 GCA ?. Then to get it into the US they had to add a "target site"and a finger extension to the mag. It was so it would not go over the "points" that BATF was imposing.

The dropped the "Baby" Browning .25acp pistol from importation cause it couldn't meet the criteria about the same time.

Anyway nice pics...

Yes caliber barrel length and even overall pistol size (length and width) are factors - this on top of caliber. The ban was done to stop the import of so called Saturday Night Specials but affected a lot of collector guns as well. Bummer. I saw a SA marked Ruby for about 100 euros over there which would have been a steal.