Milsurp After Hours

Perusing one of the other LE forums I've come across a thread on "the record". I am sure you have all seen the oft quoted, 1914, still standing, 38 shots into a 12 inch bull, 300 yards, one minute, Sgt Snoxall references.

It would appear that Sgt Snoxhall is not the man after all -

I have finaly got a reply from a very helpfull Major Benson Small Arms School Corps.
He has confirmed the record, but the name is wrong, It was a Sergeant Major J.A Wallingford. Between 1894 and 1907 he won the Gold Jewel, Best in army six times.

Now in my idle moments a few years ago I searched the internet avidly for further information on this record. However all I ever found was references posted in various forums quoting its existence but no hard evidence.

Now that it has once again been brought to my attention I thought I would throw out a few questions that it has raised in my mind. Things like -

Does/did the British Army/Navy/Air Force keep these sort of records ? Given the range of weaponary in various arms of service there would be a fair number of possible events.

What was the actual record for ? The 38 shots in a minute ? The 38 scoring shots in a minute ? The 38 scoring shots in a minute at a particular distance ? (I have seen reference to 44 shots in a minute but no target was mentioned)

Why 300 yards ?

Given the year (1914) always quoted might this have been a propaganda/morale boosting exercise ?

Hi Woftam,

Does/did the British Army/Navy/Air Force keep these sort of records ?

I'm not sure, but if they did, there's a good chance that they've been destroyed (either by out own bureaucrats or by the Luftwaffe)

Given the range of weaponary in various arms of service there would be a fair number of possible events.

From the 1905 Musketry Regulations, Infantry rifles and Cavalry carbines fired the same course, only the required scores for each arm of service seemed to differ.
Otherwise they all shot for Grouping, Application (best score), Snap Shooting and Rapid Fire although the various disciplines would be fired over a number of ranges.
Machine-guns, Pistols etc. of course, had their own courses.

What was the actual record for ? The 38 shots in a minute ? The 38 scoring shots in a minute ? The 38 scoring shots in a minute at a particular distance ? (I have seen reference to 44 shots in a minute but no target was mentioned)

Only the scoring rounds would count.
For a trained soldier, this would mean using a 2nd Class figure target, 4 ft square, with the scoring area 36" diameter (2pt) ring, a 24" ring (3pt ring) and a figure head and shoulders (scores 4pts.).
The Part II Standard Test has the 'Rapid Fire' test, firing 8 rounds in 1 minute at 200 yads from an empty rifle*
Note: The pass mark for this practice was 18 pts, the Average for the Regular Army was 52 - I'd like to know what Sergeant Major Wallingford scored on his shoot.

Why 300 yards ?

I suspect that this was an impromptu record - Rapid fire practice was carried out at 200 yds., but Applicatin was carried out at 300, with the same targets.

It is my suggestion that SM.Wallingford was just 'showing off' or making a point to a detail.

If the score was in a contest, then the range was probably incresaed to make matters more difficult (although it might be worth checking the range quoted).,

Any use?

Tom

* Possibly the test was designed for RMLE with loose rounds isssued.

Tom,

thank you, very useful indeed.

I imagine SM Wallingfords score would be 114 (38 x 3) as it is always stated the shots went into a 12 inch bull.

In 1942, W.E. Fairbairn wrote a book called "All In Fighting", which was designed as a manual of hand to hand, knife and rifle fighting. The section on the rifle was written by a Captain P.N. Walbridge, who is credited as being the Weapon Training Officer at the Special Training centre, as well as a winner at Bisley going back to 1935. He claimed to have managed, using the second finger for the trigger, to be able to clear 5 rounds in 4 seconds at least, occasionally being faster in demonstration. He also believed it was possible to push the average soldier towards 20-25 rounds a minute, and possibly faster. Admittedly, these are under unrecorded conditions, and designed for killing rather than targetry, but I always find him an interesting comparison against the record. However, this book is the only one I've ever seen him mentioned in.

Nick