Something strange...

Aughnanure · Post by **Aughnanure** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:41 am

...to me anyway. I got this on THR and the poster was asking about the stocks

help: strange butt stock shape on enfield-mauser

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Dear Sirs,
In a military warehouse where former trophies of the USSR are stored we have found two rifles. Both of them are in .303. I have question on one of them (which has to a stock from a light wood and has no additional side dioptric scope). We think that it is American rifle М1917 which had been altered for .303 cartridge and sent to Britain in 1940. It seems to me that the shape of butt stock is strange. Anyway I did not see such form of a butt on the American and English rifles of that time.
BR

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.p ... 1153143293

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.p ... 1153143303

I tried posting the pics but---

dhtaxi · Post by **dhtaxi** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:48 pm

The rifles are P14,s they are chambered in .3o3.

They were manufactured in the states probably got shipped to the uk.

Its anybodys gues what happened to them after that and how they ended up were they were found.

Brass Rat · Post by **Brass Rat** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:46 pm

That is an unusual stock on the bottom rifle.

KCLRPC · Post by **KCLRPC** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:50 pm

considering the colour of the wood, the shape of the grip, and the fact that it lacks any space for a butt disc, is it possible that when it came to be issued in 1940 someone made up a stock so that it could be issued, or that it was damaged while in Home Guard service and the same thing happened?

KCLRPC · Post by **KCLRPC** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:52 pm

as a sub note, whats the projection above the bolt release catch?

Woftam · Post by **Woftam** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:17 pm

The projection you refer to (1st picture, bottom rifle I assume), is the sight arm for the volley sights.

You cannot see it on the top rifle because the picture shows the right side but I'm confident it's there. You can see the screw for it just behind the outer barrel band. The top rifle also retains the brass butt disc which (along with the volley sights) were removed when upgraded. Interestingly both seem to retain their piling swivels.

My two cents on the stock - going by the quote posted with the pictures the are in the former USSR somewhere. Are they there as trophies as the quote suggests or possibly "funny foreign guns" kept when all the 'common as muck' MN's were sold off as surplus ?

If the top rifle is representative then they may have come through England in WWII but probably not through Weedon as they retain all their original features. Maybe shipped direct ? Maybe they went across much earlier, like WWI ? or post WWI to Estonia or one of the other Baltic states ?

The replacement stock seems to be an excellent copy (less volley sights) until the trigger. After that it deviates markedly. Why ? Wartime replacement stock, no time for the finer points (volley sights, butt disc, original butt) - "just give me a rifle with something to hang on to ? "

Personal preference, belonged to a Russian marksman ? general ? party bigwig ? - "love the rifle but can we do something about that goddawful butt ?"

Any other thoughts ?

Tom-May · Post by **Tom-May** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:24 pm

"...as a sub note, whats the projection above the bolt release catch? ..."

I think the part you are referring to is the rear 'volley sight'.

As for how they got there and why there is an odd shape to the butt. I seem to recall reading somewhere that quantities of these weapons were shipped to Russia during the intervention/Civil War to equip the 'Whites'.

Possibly the modified butt was a repair or field modification.

Just an idea.

Tom.

KCLRPC · Post by **KCLRPC** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:45 am

I've not seen the volley sites on a P14 before, as my one is a 7.62 conversion (shoots nicely, but not the same history). I'm working on a bad Russian accent to voice Woftam's last suggestion