7.62 Enfields
Moderator: joseyclosey
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Will Durant
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 6:18 pm
7.62 Enfields
How many folks here have one or a lot of experience with them?I am curious in particular about the "Envoy".Your thoughts,experience,accuracy,best loads,best factory ammunition-all of that sort of 'stuff.Will
I don't know where you are, but here in UK heavy barrel 7.62mm Enfields are very, very common. The "factory" models - L39, L42, 7.62mmCONV, Enforcer, Envoy - have a decent collectors' cachet, but there are many chopped military rifles which use identical components but have virtually no value - they're seen as 1970s target rifles that no longer have the edge.
The "factory" models and most commercial conversions use either the Enfield hammer-forged barrel, or the Enforcer-type turned barrel (hence the "step" in the middle) with chordal rifling.
The Enfield barrel was a direct result of a military requirement to find a 7.62mm barrel to convert 4(T) sniper rifles. According to Peter Laidler, records show that the development team acquired a couple of P14 target rifles both fitted with a commercial heavy barrel providing excellent accuracy with 7.62mm NATO ball. Its not known who developed the barrel, but it became the pattern for the Enfield heavy barrel.
These heavy barrels are superbly optimised for 144gn NATO ammunition - as that was the original military design brief. This is borne out by testing - most Envoys/ Enforcers/ L39s produce their best results with standard military ball, eg RG. Using more modern (and very much more expensive!) 155gn match ammo usually does not show an accuracy improvement. Standard RG ball ammunition is very accurate, but does show the occasional "flyer" due to production tolerances. The very best shooting is with sniper-grade ammunition, such as RG Green Spot, or something like PMC military match .308 (actually sub-labelled as NATO spec 7.62mm, for those who debate the 308/7.62mm difference!).
The best sort of groups I've got - shooting from a sandbag or sling - is about 1 moa. If you put a decent Envoy or L39 in a machine rest, I'd guess that you could expect groups of 1/2 moa or less. Most of these rifles seem to shoot better at mid- or long-range than at 25/100yds.
I currently have about 20x 7.62mm Enfields, and they all perform near enough the same as each other - of course, apart from furniture differences, they are all the same rifle. The best three rifles at short- to mid- range (600yds) are Enforcers (that chordal barrel really seems to be optimised well), and the best three at long range are two L39s and a Palma Envoy.
No4- configuration 7.62mm rifles (L8 series, Charnwood, Sterling, DCRA, etc) are a very different beast. 7.62mm in a standard No4 barrel profile and in a standard military-bedded rifle just doesn't seem to work - most believe that the difference between 7.62mm and .303 barrel harmonics is to blame. The only configuration that seems to do the business is when the barrel is centre-bedded (as in the DCRA rifles, which are very good shooters).
http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL605/23 ... 452590.jpg[/pic]
Top to bottom: L42A1, L39A1, 7.62mmCONV, Envoy, Enforcer.
The "factory" models and most commercial conversions use either the Enfield hammer-forged barrel, or the Enforcer-type turned barrel (hence the "step" in the middle) with chordal rifling.
The Enfield barrel was a direct result of a military requirement to find a 7.62mm barrel to convert 4(T) sniper rifles. According to Peter Laidler, records show that the development team acquired a couple of P14 target rifles both fitted with a commercial heavy barrel providing excellent accuracy with 7.62mm NATO ball. Its not known who developed the barrel, but it became the pattern for the Enfield heavy barrel.
These heavy barrels are superbly optimised for 144gn NATO ammunition - as that was the original military design brief. This is borne out by testing - most Envoys/ Enforcers/ L39s produce their best results with standard military ball, eg RG. Using more modern (and very much more expensive!) 155gn match ammo usually does not show an accuracy improvement. Standard RG ball ammunition is very accurate, but does show the occasional "flyer" due to production tolerances. The very best shooting is with sniper-grade ammunition, such as RG Green Spot, or something like PMC military match .308 (actually sub-labelled as NATO spec 7.62mm, for those who debate the 308/7.62mm difference!).
The best sort of groups I've got - shooting from a sandbag or sling - is about 1 moa. If you put a decent Envoy or L39 in a machine rest, I'd guess that you could expect groups of 1/2 moa or less. Most of these rifles seem to shoot better at mid- or long-range than at 25/100yds.
I currently have about 20x 7.62mm Enfields, and they all perform near enough the same as each other - of course, apart from furniture differences, they are all the same rifle. The best three rifles at short- to mid- range (600yds) are Enforcers (that chordal barrel really seems to be optimised well), and the best three at long range are two L39s and a Palma Envoy.
No4- configuration 7.62mm rifles (L8 series, Charnwood, Sterling, DCRA, etc) are a very different beast. 7.62mm in a standard No4 barrel profile and in a standard military-bedded rifle just doesn't seem to work - most believe that the difference between 7.62mm and .303 barrel harmonics is to blame. The only configuration that seems to do the business is when the barrel is centre-bedded (as in the DCRA rifles, which are very good shooters).
Top to bottom: L42A1, L39A1, 7.62mmCONV, Envoy, Enforcer.
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Strangely_Brown
- Regular visitor
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:10 am
- Location: UK
A quick and not very scientific look at some HBSA "Post Veteran" competition results would seem to indicate that the Enfield Palma Envoys, L39A1's, and Enfield conversions (L39's?) seem to do better in competitions than Parker-Hale T4's and converted P14's.
I also notice that some of the unusal No 4 conversions like the Hart No 4 and Whitaker Special (built in the South London Club House at Bisley) have faired very well against T4's and P14's.
It may just be down to the particular owners of these rifles being better marksman than their rivals?
Having said that I have never shot better than with my L39 now that I have put a single point sling on it and watched which way the flags are flying!
I also notice that some of the unusal No 4 conversions like the Hart No 4 and Whitaker Special (built in the South London Club House at Bisley) have faired very well against T4's and P14's.
It may just be down to the particular owners of these rifles being better marksman than their rivals?
Having said that I have never shot better than with my L39 now that I have put a single point sling on it and watched which way the flags are flying!
Mick
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A square 10
- Leading Member
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Will Durant
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 6:18 pm
7.62
Brewstop-Thank you for your post.I live in the state of Washington,USA.The Envoy is a fairly rare bird in the USof A,although there are some snipers made available through surplus sales.My Envoy is one of the 1970 Palma guns(regulated by Fulton's).I have shot it a bit but have not worked up anything remotely like a serious load and am looking for any serious input as to accuracy loadings.I did shoot some RG 1989 L2A2 ammunition the other day andwhat a "Train Wreck".I also gave some 1990 RG a go and it shot quite a bit better,however it was a chore to extract the cases.The 1989 had a berdan primer, the 1990 is Boxer.The 1989 has small letters in the head stanp.the 1990 has larger letters.The primer sealant on the 1989 is purple,the 1990 sealant is red.The packaging is different also. I read an article a few years ago by someone who went on tour through Norma and who was told that Norma had loaded L2A2 on contract for the UKMOD.Any thoughts here??? Will
VERY NICE
Brewstop
That is a very nice collection!
That is a very nice collection!
Unfortunately they are always owned by someone else. 
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Will Durant
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 6:18 pm
RG Ammo
Does anyone know if these purchases by Radway were for finished ammunition,brass only or primed brass??? Will