Winchester P 14 in hand.

[Ed Novak]

I received my Win. mfr'd P14 this past week; sn W226181. Very nice wood; excellent metal and bore. Wooden plug in the unit disk spot. Mismatched bolt - the dealer told me it would be so. Front volley-sight plate only; furniture is Win. marked but I've not inventoried all the small parts for mfr ID. Has a triangle stamping on the butt, just aft the grip, with an "8" ?. Cycling the bolt is different from my LEs in that pressure on the trigger will impede bolt movement toward closure. At the point of bolt closure at which the firing pin spring would load for cocking, depressing the trigger allows the bolt to fully "go home" but continued pressure on the trigger will not allow bolt handle rotation beyond about 30-40 degrees. Slightly releasing trigger pressure or completely releasing it will allow the bolt handle to rotate with mild to no resistance, respectively. Depression of the trigger seems to control much of the bolt function, as opposed to my LEs in which depressing the trigger allows the bolt to easily/fluidly cycle home and close. Nature of the beast? Having had this P 14 in hand for a few days and having "explored" it and its function, as well as having done some recent review of information about it, I can well understand the apparent enthusiasm for the "Empire" having kept the SMLE/No.1 as its main battle rifle. I am not disappointed with the P 14, I am perfectly pleased to hold it, but in comparing its virtues to my 1904 and 1917 BSA, I'd much rather have had one of the BSA SMLEs in hand were I facing enemy fire. The local "deer hunt" is on for the next 2 - 4 weeks in my area and my range is closed for that period so I won't have an opportunity to fire it until about the first week of December. In the interim, I am preparing some hand-loaded ammunition to use along with some Federal commercial fodder and some '81 PMP (the PMP has been a real disappointment in my SMLEs/and No.4s so I may leave it at home to sulk). I apologize for the length of this message. I will be attempting to create some digital photos to post within the next two weeks. ed

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[dromia]

Don't apologise Ed I do like to read, probably a product of not owning a television.





Sounds like a good Wheedon job, congratulations.





Its late for me here I've just got in from the RSC will post more later.

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Adam.





Why don't you visit .

[A square 10]

i too enjoyed reading your post it prompted me to pull my p14 and an m17 out of the cabinet to explore the bolt/trigger relationship you described - interesting , our deer season starts saturday but i dont believe the range is closed but now i must ring them up to see as id scheduled a trip there over the weekend

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[dromia]

Hi Ed,





It sounds like a Wheedon repair job, is there a star or asterix with anumber above it stamped on the heel of the pistol grip?





No, No1s they aren't, my own personal interpretation is that they are part of the Mauser fetish that hung over from the Boer War and the Long Lees.





I think this was a more tactical error than a weapons error.





However during WW1 the benefits of the close on cocking rear locking fast action ten round capacity Lee really came into its own as demonstrated on the Marne.





Also the trench warfare meant that these rifles were used at greatly reduced ranges in comparison to the South African Veldt and the No1 came into its own.





The idea of the smaller flat shooting cartridge of the P13 was sound, but with a surplus of proven weapons post WW1 and the cutting of the military meant there was no enthusiam for resurrecting the P13 and its derivatives.





They are extremely accurate strong actioned rifles but are in my view an aberration in that which is Lee Enfield, we went down the same route again with the bulpup design that evolved into that PoS the SA 80.





Let us know how it shoots here's a link to my Winchester P14 post:


<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://p089.ezboard.com/fmilsurpafterho ... D=87.topic" target="top">P 14 by Winchester.</a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->







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Adam.





Why don't you visit .

[Ed Novak]

Having some leisure time, I searched my P 14 for marks. The butt, just aft the "sweep" of the grip reveals a triangle with an "O" or "8" or ?. Unfortunately, the grip is chipped just forward of the triangle. The receiver ring has a 5 point star in a circle. Knox form is stamped 2 17. The bolt and its parts are stamped with a "*" and sn 667488 and an "E" under the number, which I suspect indicates an Eddystone bolt - a "serious mismatch", I feel. Still, given the years intervening between mfr and today, having a complete rifle is something to be grateful for and were it issued to me for combat use, I'd not balk at its pedigree. Two weeks remain before I will be able to use the range to test the rifle. ed

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[dromia]

Ed,





I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about the "mismatched" bolt.





As you rightly state who knows how or why the "mismatch" happend and is more than likely to be a genuine consequence of the rifles military history, as opposed to a dodgy dealer at some point.





So long as it headspaces and shoots then its "matched" in my book. ;





If you haven't done so already then I suggest that you read this post for a "philosophical" approach to Enfield collecting. ;





<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://p089.ezboard.com/fmilsurpafterho ... =479.topic" target="top">Arriving at a conclusion.</a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->

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Adam.





Why don't you visit .





</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p089.ezboard.com/bmilsurpafterho ... >dromia</A>  http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/ ... andCLR.gif[/pic] at: 11/13/04 2:07 am

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[Ed Novak]

Adam: You are correct in that I should not be fretting about the mismatched bolt. (I have yet to fire the rifle so I have no real reason for complaint at this point.) I am a member of that subset of Enfield holders however, who hopes that all parts will be matched, yet, recognizes that each rifle has its own history and its parts may well be mismatched and, even so, the rifle's status can be completely correct.


Somehow, for me, this Enfield brings on concerns about matching which I've encouraged others with similar concerns about LEs to accept as a matter-of-course. Perhaps this is due to the fact that I know less about the P 14/its history than I do about the LEs.


Soothed, somewhat, and mildly-chastened, I will forestall further concerns until I've been to the range and tried this P 14. "Worry is interest paid on trouble before it is due". ed







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[A square 10]

well said ed , i too am waiting for the annual great north reduction in deer population to officialy end , there have been a number of nice range days missed since its start , it sounds ike youve picked up a nice rifle , ive been quite immpressed with the shootability of these rifles and in spite of its comparitivly ungainly appearance it handles quite well , i like it as well as my no4s on the range sightwise

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[Ed Novak]

I understand that the chargers for the SMLE/No.4 can/may be used for the P 13/14 but I find the fit of the charger to the bridge a very, very loose fit and charging a matter of carefully holding the charger whilst stripping the dummy loads into the magazine.


A square 10: Yes. Irritates me to no end that I have to sit on my hands while my local range remains closed in a gesture of accommodation to a handful of hunters using land adjacent to the range because they are "somebody" in the local community's social hierarchy. But then, I am one of a small minority of shooters who has no interest in hunting anything other than the small group in the x-ring.


I have the impression, these days, that many "MN deer-hunters" are people who sense a social obligation to help reduce the population of the vermin while exercising their prowess with the once-yearly fired rifle. Ok. Rant off. For now. Well, no, not quite. True riflemen shoot paper; and do it well and often. There. I feel better now. ed

<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p089.ezboard.com/bmilsurpafterho ... ednovak>Ed Novak</A> at: 11/15/04 8:30 pm

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[dromia]

I know exactly what you are saying about the deerhunters, I like to take my beasts every year, old habits die hard, but to my eyes the 20 rounds a year boys aren't real shooters.





However, and here's the rub, they are still <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>shooters and gun owners</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->.





As you are no doubt aware here in the UK we are are holding on to the little we have in the way of firearms by the skin of our teeth and why?





Because when our backs were against the wall the different shooting sectors didn't pull together, in fact they shafted each other under the illusion that their own narrow field would be left alone, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>WRONG!</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->.





The saddest thing was that we were so poorly represented by our national organisation who just wanted to look after target shooters and threw pistol shooters to the dogs as a sacrifice. Just as Britain did with Hitler in '38 and '39, it was called appeasment.





Don't let that victim mentality divisiveness happen to you in America.





I defend the rights of all shooters regardless of what I think of their discipline, hell even people who shoot Mausers ;





Its the right to have firearms that is the important principle to hold onto, there are no buts or exceptions.





I'm sure this isn't what you meant Ed but what happened here still grieves me and it's worth remembering the lesson from time time.

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Adam.





Why don't you visit .





</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p089.ezboard.com/bmilsurpafterho ... >dromia</A>  http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/ ... andCLR.gif[/pic] at: 11/16/04 4:34 pm

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