Down Right Dangerous ....

[1886lebel]

I usually do not post stuff from YouTube but this is just plain beyond belief.
This takes the cake people, this is plain dangerous and stupidity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqboR6gj ... r_embedded
That RSO should never be allowed to handle a firearm on any range ever for allowing this
Patrick

[Barry in IN]

I guess this is making the rounds. I'm in the middle of a "discussion" on this at another forum right now. Most of the people there are in agreement that it's nuts. but there are a few disciples of that school who keep finding ways to justify it (in their minds).

Here is my first response after seeing it:

As said, if the cameraman was there only to take pictures, then get a remote.

If, as also said, he was there to get students accustomed to a 360 degree world rather than the typical 180 degree firing range, there are better ways of doing it. Put something expensive between targets like an ATV or somebody's car if they have to.
Potentially costly? Maybe, but cheap in comparison to that alternative.

If the idea is to induce stress, and that is the best way they can come up with...
Well...good instructors seem to have no problem stressing the calmest, coolest, guy in the class if they want or need to.

I don't see that it does anything that can't be done some other way.
In other words: I see it as a crutch to make up for lack of instructor skill or a gimmick.

Sound mean or unfair? I don't care.

The first time a shooter gets a "catch" or cramp when he rises from kneeling and hooks one through the photog's lens into his face, we will ALL pay for it. An accident on a typical firing line is one thing, but have one in this example and there will be no mercy at all.
Look at the screaming here, where it's our own people and nobody was shot. Just imagine if they were. What possible defense or explanation will save the instructor?

An accident here could end firearms training for all of us. If it didn't get legislated away, insurance could kill it.
If someone wants to expose themselves to that type of risk, go ahead. Just don't jeopardize the very existence of firearms training by doing it and ruin things for the rest of us.

Some tried to justify it by saying it was an "advanced class" so it was OK.
Besides the fact that still wouldn't justfy it, I don't think it was a very advanced class at all. I'm no training expert, but I have taken a few classes, and the students are doing things you wouldn't do past lunch in anything I've taken. You really can't see much of the students' gunhandling, but even from what little I could see- the woman on the left of the line had a really sloppy drawstroke, and the guy in the white shirt that is in the middle gives a great demonstration of the "Half Sabrina" that is ridiculed in training currently. (The "Half Sabrina" is named after the old Charlie's Angels character who often posed with the gun next to her face for dramatic effect. A "Full Sabrina" is the same, except with the finger on the trigger. Neither have much value as a ready position as they point the muzzle skyward allowing an easy takeaway and let an accidental shot to go into the unknown, and gain nothing over a muzzle-down ready position like "Guard" or "Sul" except for looking cool to the uninitiated.)

But other than that, I have no opinion about this.

[1886lebel]

Here is his response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R3t0wuLDWQ
I DO NOT BUY IT, his school is dangerous and he is down right stupid for allowing this to happen
Patrick

[Barry in IN]

He not only allows it, he encourages it.

I know some are saying that if you don't like it- don't take the class. I agree with that thinking on a lot of things, but this isn't one of them. It still has an effect on me whether I take the class or not.
When something happens (and it will eventually), insurance will go through the roof for all trainers. That's the best case. The worst case is the end of firearms training altogether. But if we are "lucky", it will only cause insurance to skyrocket. The big places like Gunsite might survive, but I doubt the one-man operations like Louis Awerbuck's Yavapai Firearms Academy, Bill Jeans' Morrigan Consulting, Pat Rogers' EAG, etc can make it. If they do, we will be looking at something ridiculous like over $1,000 for a three-day class. That may not be the end of firearms training, but it will end it for most of us.

And all for a gimmick. Something to set them apart.

[1886lebel]

Tactical Response is owned by James Yeager. He was a contractor in Iraq in 05 and got two people killed for his actions [ actually his panicked response to bail from the car he was driving while under fire in an ambush ].
He was sitting still waiting to approach a check point when they came under fire by ambush. He had put the car in neutral with the emergency brake on while waiting and when they came under fire, he gunned the accelerator and nothing happened. He assumed the car engine had been disabled [ according to his report later ] and bailed to the median strip leaving the other two contractors to fend for themselves. They died in the vehicle.
He was subsequently fired and sent home for his actions by the employer [ Edinburgh Risk and Security Management ] and then ran his mouth that it wasn't his fault they died, they should have bailed out as well. He made some disparaging remarks about the employer who then subsequently sued him for breach of contract [ reiterating stories against company policy ] and lost. He was ordered to pay an exorbitant amount of money to the employer and I don't know have any knowledge from that point forward on the outcome.
Here is video of that incident
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8alt5C-yc4
I was in Iraq at that time and remember that was all over Stars and Stripes, now he is teaching, what a JOKE !
Patrick

[Barry in IN]

I had heard that he said something that had people ready to hang him, but I never knew what. I had no interest in his classes, so never bothered to look.
All I heard was that he made some remarks, which was bad enough. I didn't know he was involved.
Thanks for the info.

[DoubleD]

I think some people just don't like him. Here is one of his fan club websites.

http://yeagerisscum.tripod.com/

[Niner]

So who is this guy that we need a string blasting him? What's the point?

Everybody here can see this is not something that anyone with any sense at all would do on a live fire range.

[Barry in IN]

I know that this subject may not directly apply to milsurp firearms, but it might help somebody if they are looking into training but don't know where to go for it.
A lot of people are seeking training for the first time right now. And naturally, there are also a LOT of trainers and schools out there too. If you don't know what a trainer/school is like ahead of time it could be an expensive disappointment. Most people can only afford the time and money to do it once, so you don't want to make a wrong choice.

A few years ago, when I finally got myself going to get some actual training there was one instructor I was curious about. I wouldn't say he was at the top of my list, but he was ON the list. He didn't have any classes scheduled near me at the time, but if he had, I might have signed up. But since he didn't, I went somewhere else.
Since then, I have learned more about his training techniques and practices. As a result, I am about as likely to attend one of his classes as Mr Yeager's. I am so glad I didn't start there. It could have ended there too, since it could have soured me on the entire idea of training.

Learning more about that instructor showed me just how important it is to have GOOD information before choosing a trainer/school. Obviously one should do their homework before making such a decision, but that isn't always easy and reliable info is scarce.
Training is a funny thing. If you haven't had a class from a particular source, you can't really know what it's like. But word of mouth can be shaky too.
You can talk to someone who has been to the place you are interested in, but there has to be some frame of reference. If that is the only place they've been, it won't mean much if they say it's the greatest place on earth. I see and hear this all the time, though. Look at forums when someone asks if they should go to School A or School B. Half the people say one and the rest say the other, but rarely will anybody say "I've been to both, and I liked _____ because...." Without that, it doesn't tell you much.

Sorry about that. I went off on one of my training rants.
It's just that a lot of people are looking into it for the first time, and there are a lot of ways to have a good experience and a lot of ways to have a bad experience.
This is why I feel the more information out there, the better. And I think the video from the original post told a lot. Some may be repulsed by it, but some may find it to be just what they wanted.

[dhtaxi]

The guy is a idiot.
He shouldnt be allowed any were near fire arms.