Here is a mystery

Post by **Niner** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:20 pm

A friend of mine inherited a gun from his father and his father got it I don't know how, but long ago. It is known by inscription on the gun that it was made by George P. Foster of Bristol R.I. Now information acquired with the gun lists a year of 1886, but George P. Foster, a gunsmith and gun seller of Bristol, died in 1874. And this may be the same George P. Foster that helped with the design and manufacture of the Burnside rifle during the Civil War. There is also another bit of odd information, but probably incorrectly spelled, of 'St. Etinme' that was found in the patch box. The caliber is thought to be .44.

Looks to me like the barrel may be thicker than a standard sporting arm, maybe for target shooting.

Any theory of what we have here? I got a feeling it was of very limited production and possibly would be worth something at auction.

mozark · Post by **mozark** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:47 am

It looks like a pre civil-war percussion target rifle to me. This would be in keeping with the dates you have for the gunsmith.

If you may, what is the information that suggests 1886?

I can't see any reason a percussion target rifle would have been made in 1886. Solidly into the Target Shooting era of Highwalls, Ballards, Meachams, Rolling Blocks and Martini's, among others.

MM

Post by **Niner** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:35 am

Nor what that is stuck to the stock behind the patchbox. I'll have to ask.

Post by **Niner** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:22 am

The date was on a piece of paper that came with the gun and not engraved any place on the gun. Whats on the stock is a piece of paper, probably "the" piece of paper with mysterious date and 'St. Etinme' .

1886lebel · Post by **1886lebel** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:31 am

George P. Foster, Taunton, Massachusetts, and Bristol Rhode Island, trained as a gunsmith, active from about 1850 onward. Foster made Klein-Patent needle rifles and the Howard breech loading carbines. Subsequently he became works superintendent of the Burnside Fire Arms Company in Rhode Island.

George P. Foster's 1860 U.S. patent (no. 27791) added a grease-retaining ring to the cartridge used in the Burnside carbine, this being the first to put the grease inside the case (plate Sd). This served a double purpose. Besides helping seal the junction of breechblock and barrel, it put the grease, needed to keep the black powder fouling soft, under cover. Older bullets had been lubricated externally with a rather heavy beeswax-tallow mixture, which picked up all the dirt and sand in the vicinity when carried loose in the soldier's pocket. This is prob-

ably the first really long case to have been made out of drawn brass. Evidently it worked well.

Post by **Niner** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:29 pm

He also had a notion of a connection to the needle rifles somewhere in whatever information that was handed down.

I asked him to look for proof marks. St. Etienne, different spelling from what he was handed down, was I understand a famous gun making town in France and the site of a proof house in the late 1800's, although guns being made there were probably "proofed" there long before the official proof house. Foster might have used some parts manufactured in France.

1886lebel · Post by **1886lebel** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:06 pm

Manufacture d'Armes de Saint-Étienne (MAS) was one of three main arsenals in France and it had been making arms since the Middle Ages until the early 1980's when it closed its doors and was taken over by GIAT Industries and moved its plant near Paris.

Saint-Étienne was known as "Armsville" and now the arsenal is a museum housing many of the different weapons it made throughout its history.

It would not suprise me that he got parts from France as at that time was a leading country in military/commercial weaponary.

Patrick

Post by **DuncaninFrance** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:07 pm

Further to what Patrick said, 'Saint-Étienne' was stamped on guns and parts that never went near the town as well as the legitimate makers from there.

:roll::roll:

As regards proofing of weapons in Saint-Étienne, it is still carried out. When I bought my Mauser K98k it was proofed there. This was because the caliber was changed to 8x60S and so the rifle had to be proofed before it was sold to me.

Here is the certificate.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/ ... RT-web.jpg[/pic]

Post by **Niner** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:26 pm

The owner found this junker advertised by Dixie Gun Works that's a close relative. Looks like at least a few made then.

Further information is three digit number that is on the barrel and repeated under the patch box. Maybe the number made in the series.

The one in the link has a barrel 3 inches longer than the one my friend owns and looks to be of a plainer model to start with..

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_i ... 72bf96e039

Aughnanure · Post by **Aughnanure** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:20 am

Have seen a couple of these and there were reproductions made about twenty yeears ago IIRC.

Here is a mystery

Here is a mystery

I'm not sure where the date comes from

Further information

Thanks Patrick

I think the St. Etienne may have been a red herring